Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Lord Hunt of Wirral: Can the Minister say where we are with the implementation of the Freedom of Information Act?
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: That comes into effect in January 2005.
Lord Hunt of Wirral: Under that Act, if it is to come into effect in 2005, would it not assist in ensuring that the proposals from the OFT were published if the amendment were to be accepted? As I understand it, under the Act the Minister's responses would have to be published. Against that background, why is the Minister not willing to consider the amendment? It may be that he will want more time to do so.
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: We shall need to look at that detail. We are talking about a reasoned response being given within six weeks of receipt thereof. That is rather a strong requirement. We think it is an inflexible one. Obviously, the Freedom of Information Actwhen it comes into forcewill take over that issue.
Lord Hunt of Wirral: I am grateful to the Minister. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Hunt of Wirral moved Amendment No. 26:
The noble Lord said: We now turn to stop now orders. I believe that the Government intend to improve the consistency of approach in the use of stop now orders. The amendment seeks an additional function for the OFT to issue guidance to trading standards departments about the use of their powers to obtain stop now orders and to ensure that such powers are used consistently.
There are considerable concerns as to how the 200 trading standards departments across the country use their powers. They have varying amounts of resources to devote to particular abuses. They have different priorities. There have been failed attempts to ring-fence resources. Some trading standards departments have been hard hit by cuts in expenditure. The Trading Standards Institute and the Local Government Association have strong views about that.
This all produces a rather disparate accumulation of differing standards in different parts of the country. The subject of the amendment is inconsistency between different trading standards departments in different local councils. Surely, the OFT should have some overview of how stop now orders are carried out in practice.
The OFT has a duty to issue guidance on stop now orders under the Stop Now Orders Regulations 2001. I appreciate that we are not debating those at the present time. Under Clause 224 there is a duty to issue guidance on the corresponding provisions in Part 8 of the Bill.
Interim draft guidance was published by the OFT on stop now orders last year. After extensive consultation, the final version was published a few weeks ago. These are complicated documents. I hope that the Minister will agree that it would be helpful to have some reassurance about the emergence of these differing standards, and to find some wayif not with this amendmentfor the OFT to have a general overview to ensure that such differing standards do not emerge. I beg to move.
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: The amendment seeks to improve the consistency of approach in the way in which stop now orders are used, and I thoroughly support its intention.
The amendment aims to do two things: first, to give the OFT a duty to issue guidance. As the noble Lord pointed out, this is unnecessary because the OFT is already under a duty to issue guidance on stop now orders under the Stop Now Order Regulations. Clause 224 puts the OFT under a duty to issue guidance on the corresponding provisions in Part 8. Again as the noble Lord said, the OFT issued interim draft guidance on stop now orders last year, and, after extensive consultation, the final version was published on 10th April 2002.
The amendment also seeks to place a duty on the OFT to ensure that stop now order powers are used consistently. We also want the powers in the Stop Now Order Regulations and Part 8 of the Bill to be used consistently by enforcers. The OFT's guidance has the aim of promoting consistency. It can direct that enforcersother than Community enforcersmay not take a case to court if another enforcer is already doing so, to prevent business facing duplicate proceedings. But the OFT does not have a general power to direct the activities of trading standards departments which are part of local authorities. We do not think that it would be appropriate to give the OFT such a power. We would expect the OFT to do everything it could to support and encourage the consistent use of these powers, but it would not be right to put the OFT under a duty to ensure that when it does not have the power to do so. These powers rest really with the local authorities.
There is nothing between us on wishing to see consistency on the matter. I believe that we are giving the OFT the powers it needs to do the job as far as it should be doing it, but leaving that ultimate responsibility with the local authorities. I hope that with that reassurance the noble Lord will withdraw his amendment.
Lord Hunt of Wirral: I am grateful to the Minister for so clearly acknowledging the problem. I should like further time to consider what he has said about the inappropriateness of a general power for the OFT to
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Amendments Nos. 27 and 28 not moved.]
Clause 8 [Promoting good consumer practice]:
Lord Hunt of Wirral moved Amendment No. 29:
The noble Lord said: I should like to ask the Government why the phrase "the economic interests of" has crept into Clause 8(1). It states:
Lord Sainsbury of Turville: My answer can be very short. The amendment effectively widens the OFT's function to promote good practice in all areas of interest to consumers. Everyone would agree that that would be impractical as it would include areas such as health and safety where the OFT has no powers or interests.
The principle of the clause is that by approving codes of practice the OFT will help consumers to find reliable traders. It is in order to differentiate their economic interests that we have drafted this part of the Bill in this way. I hope that noble Lords will agree that the responsibilities of the OFT should not include areas such as health and safety, which the clause would if it was widened in this way. I hope that the noble Lord will withdraw the amendment.
Lord Hunt of Wirral: I am grateful to the Minister for his comments. I should like to reflect on what he said and, perhaps, return to the issue on Report. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Lord Davies of Oldham: I beg to move that the House do now resume. In moving that Motion, I suggest that Committee begin again not before half-past eight.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
The Minister of State, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister (Lord Rooker) rose to move, That the draft order laid before the House on 18th June be approved [33rd Report from the Joint Committee].
The noble Lord said: My Lords, tackling homelessness is a vital strand of the Government's wider housing strategy to ensure that everyone has the opportunity and choice of a decent home. Homelessness legislation provides an important safety net for people who are homeless through no fault of their own and who have a priority need for accommodation. Where applicants meet those criteria, the housing authority must ensure that they have suitable temporary accommodation available until a settled housing solution becomes available for them.
This priority need order extends the categories of those for whom the housing authority must secure accommodation if they are unintentionally homeless. Currently, such persons include families with dependent children, households that include someone who is pregnant or vulnerable as a result of age, mental illness, physical disability or some other special reason, and people who are homeless as a result of a disaster, such as flood or fire. Both existing and new categories focus on those likely to have the greatest need for housing.
The order will ensure that, where necessary, housing authorities must secure suitable accommodation for all 16 and 17 year-olds who are genuinely homeless, unless they are owed a duty under social services legislation. Of course, wherever possible, housing authorities should explore the possibility of reconciling 16 and 17 year-olds with their families as a first priority, to allow them to return home. Where 16 and 17 year-olds are estranged and cannot return home, there can be no question but that they will be at risk if they have nowhere to live. The order will also give priority need to people who are vulnerable as a result of fleeing their home because of violence or threats of violence that are likely to be carried out.
Plenty of evidence demonstrates that a high proportion of people who end up homeless come from institutionalised backgrounds. The order will also extend priority need to young people aged 18 to 20 who have previously been in carea group who may be at risk because of a less-than-propitious start in life.
Other categories of people who will have priority need for accommodation under the order include people aged 21 or over who are vulnerable as a result
I am sure that noble Lords will agree that a proper statutory safety net for those most vulnerable and at risk is essential to protect them from the damage that homelessness and rough sleeping can inflict on them and to help them rebuild their lives.
The other place has considered the order. By building on previous legislation, it will strengthen the protection available to homeless people. It is proof of the commitment of the Government and of all sides of the House to improve housing for all and to tackle social exclusion. I commend the order to the House. I beg to move.
Moved, That the draft order laid before the House on 18th June be approved [33rd Report from the Joint Committee].(Lord Rooker.)
"( ) it shall also be a function of the OFT to issue guidance to trading standards departments about the use of their powers to obtain "Stop Now" orders and to ensure that such powers are used consistently."
Page 3, line 25, leave out "the economic interest of"
"The OFT has the function of promoting good practice in the carrying out of activities which may affect"
not "consumers in the United Kingdom", but
"the economic interests of consumers in the United Kingdom".
Subsection (6) refers to a "consumer code",
"safeguarding or promoting the interests of consumers",
not the "economic interests of consumers". Can the Minister explain why he has restricted the OFT's function in that way? One of the key issuescertainly when the Bill was considered in another placewas this constant emphasis on looking after the interests of consumers. I could not understand why, in promoting good consumer practice, it was only when the consumers' economic interests were affected that this particular function applied. I beg to move.
7.30 p.m.
7.34 p.m.
Baroness Hanham: My Lords, first, I thank the Minister for his courtesy in sending the code of guidance in advance of our consideration of the order. I appreciate that. Although it was nothing to do with him, it would have been nice to have received it during consideration of the Bill, but better late than never. No doubt at some stage we shall have the chance to return to some questions raised by the code of guidance.
Extension of priorities was discussed at length during the passage earlier this year of the Homelessness Act 2002. As I said then, we broadly support the extension of the categories under that Actcertainly those to whom the Minister referred: young children or young people who have been in or are leaving care. It is perfectly proper that the local authority should stay in loco parentis until they are standing on their own two feet, part of which must mean that they have somewhere secure to live. It is interesting that those priority categories now catch those young people who become separated from their families, and that responsibility for them is placed on the local authority.
Our concern remains that, however worthy that extension may be, local authorities are already struggling to deal with those who are entitled to be given help under existing homelessness legislation. Those additions will mean even more prioritisation than already occurs. That prioritisation will have to be applied by assessing the degree of vulnerability of one applicant against another.
As the Minister is well aware, there is a chronic shortage of housing available for those who require it, especially in London, and local authorities are daily having to decide where they can house the homeless as well as trying to deal with those who are in need of housing help, but are not in the homeless category.
Of course, the Chancellor has now voted zillions of pounds to housing. But with the best will in the world, the Housing Corporation will struggle to spend it in the short term, and, as has been made clear by the Deputy Prime Minister, much of it will be absorbed in dealing with key workers. Local authorities are also now under a duty to find alternatives to bed and breakfast accommodation, which is another pressure point.
In the other place, a question was raised by the shadow Secretary of State about the application of the test to which the Minister referred, which is set out in the Explanatory Note, by which a local authority determines a person's vulnerability. My honourable friend asked whether the test would now apply to all those stipulated not only in the order but in previous legislation. In reply, the Minister in the other place said that he thought that that referred only to the additional categories in the order and no one else. Can the Minister enlighten us as to whether that is the case? The Minister in the other place said that he would let my honourable friend know, but I am unclear whether that matter has been decided.
During the debates on the Homelessness Act 2002, questions were asked about which local authority would be responsible for those considered to be vulnerable as a result of leaving the Armed Forces and prison. Concern was expressed that it might be the authority in which the prison lay, in the case of prisons, and any local authority in the case of those from the Armed Forces. Although I am concerned that that is not dealt with by Armed Forces personnel or the prisons, that could put great pressure on a small number of authorities, if a large number of former members of the Armed Forces decided to go to their areasin particular, those that provide the best services. It could also put great pressure on the areas in which prisons are located.
Perhaps the Minister could give us further information on that. Finally, I simply reiterate that although the implementation of the order is likely to be fraught with practical complications, we do not oppose the principle behind it.
Baroness Maddock: My Lords, I welcome the Minister to his new role as a housing Minister. I know that he has said that few Members of this House are interested in housing. I fear that as a housing Minister, he will get to know the familiar faces. Tonight perhaps represents a start.
We on these Benches welcome the order. It is an important adjunct to the Homelessness Act 2002. We supported the Act; indeed, we worked hard with Ministers in both Houses to try to improve it. The order is supported by many people who work in the field of homelessness. I am particularly grateful for briefings from Shelter on the order.
The extension of priority need for accommodation to new categories of homeless people will strengthen the homelessness safety net. It will help those who, statistics show, are most at risk of ending up on the
streets. The categories that we heard about this evening correspond to the groups who find themselves in acute housing need. However, I want clarification from the Minister on two areas of concern. Some of the issues were raised in another place. First, the code of guidance is only in draft form. Can the Minister tell us when the code will come out and how long the consultation will be? I shall return to that matter. Secondly, there is the issue of financial support for local authorities to carry out their duties. I shall say more about that in a minute.The inclusion of 16 to 17 year-olds is, obviously, welcome. Paragraph 8.39 of the draft guidance recognises the possibility of reconciliation between young people leaving home and their parents, which means that they may need only temporary accommodation. However, if reconciliation is not possible, young people will require permanent accommodation. In particular, they will require continuing support. The guidance talks about collusion between parents and young people. I do not know whether the Government have evidence of collusion between young people and their parents to get accommodation or evidence that the practice is widespread. If it is widespread, we have a problem; if it is not, I am concerned at its inclusion in the guidance.
Many people working in the field particularly welcome the inclusion of 18 to 21 year-olds leaving care. That group of people lack support from family and others. It is particularly welcome that the order includes those who left care before the introduction of the Children (Leaving Care) Act 2000. Paragraph 8.14 of the draft guidance refers to joint working between social services and housing authorities. It could be strengthened to be more specific and spell out that it means accommodation and support services.
Some of us feel that greater clarity is needed with regard to the vulnerability of people leaving institutional care. Some local authorities may look for a direct causal link between leaving the Armed Forces and being vulnerable to homelessness. I hope that the Minister will reassure us that the final version of the code will make it clear that the presence of an institutional background should be seen as a strong indicator of vulnerability. Importantly, such vulnerability may not be apparent immediately after people leave an institution; the effects of living in an institution can come out many years later.
Like others, I welcome the inclusion of people who have left the armed services. Anyone who has visited a night shelter will know that a large number of people there will have a background in the services. In another place, my honourable friend the Member for Bath raised a point about what was happening in Wales. I am sure that the Minister has read what was said in another place. I refer particularly to service personnel who have been discharged following detention in the Military Corrective Training Centre. Provisions similar to those in the order have been in place since last year, and there is some evidence that local authorities, having accepted applicants who have been dishonourably discharged as being in priority need, find such people intentionally homeless, on the basis
that they should have known that their offence would lead to their being discharged and losing their accommodation. The Minister in another place said that he did not think that that should happen. I would be grateful if the Minister here could give a commitment that the final version of the code of guidance will explicitly advise against that practice.The treatment of ex-offenders has been a controversial issue in some areas. Recent research has shown that people coming out of prison without a home are far more likely to re-offend quickly. That is why I and others support what is in the order. I hope that the Minister can assure us that the guidance will make it clear that local authorities cannot use the fact that ex-offenders have run up rent arrears while in prison to claim that such people are intentionally homeless.
I would like to see the definition of domestic violence in the guidance strengthened. I welcome moves by the Government to deal with confidentiality. There are other categories of people who often suffer violence, on account of their gender, race, colour, ethnic or national origin, religion or sexual orientation. Such groups will also be vulnerable. I hope that the final version of the code will make it clear that it is not always necessary for applications to be supported by statements from the police. Not all applicants will have the support of the police; often, they will go to the GP as their first port of call. I hope that the guidance will make that clear.
We know that the Government have given local authorities £10 million to carry out their extra duties under the Homelessness Act 2002. Can the Minister say how that money will be distributed? That question was also raised in another place. It is clear that some authorities deal with a greater number of people presenting themselves as vulnerable and in need of housing. Can the Minister tell us the Government's thinking on that?
We support the order. It is an important part of ensuring that the Homelessness Act 2002 is effective. I have said many times that I am disappointed that it has taken so long. The problem has been exacerbated by the fact that we have such low figures for house building. That has not happened overnight. The figures for the past few years show that the problem has crept up on us. I am pleased that the Government have realised that there is a problem, but it has taken them a long time. We now have more households than we have homes, something that has not happened for many years. We welcome the order, and I hope that the Minister will answer the points that I raised about the code of guidance.
Next Section
Back to Table of Contents
Lords Hansard Home Page