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Lord Filkin: That applies generally. While we do not agree to amendments, neither are we dismissing them out of hand. I give the specific assurance required; I am happy to agree to that.

Lord Dholakia: I am grateful to the Minister for that information. My fear is that such clauses tend to become rather like a snooper's charter. I hope that that is not the case. The fear is that under the provision the local authority must comply. Could the Minister provide some guidelines to the local authority, the Inland Revenue and soon about the type of information that is required? That should be based on facts rather than opinion or suspicion about individuals. That would allay some of our fears. I hope that the Minister will consider that. In the mean time, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 112 agreed to.

Clause 113 [Inland Revenue]:

[Amendments Nos. 235B and 235C not moved.]

Clause 113 agreed to.

Clause 114 [Police, &c.]:

[Amendment No. 235D not moved.]

Clause 114 agreed to.

Clause 115 agreed to.

Clause 116 [Medical inspectors]:

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 236:

Page 61, line 19, at end insert ", or

(b) a person working under the direction of a medical inspector appointed under that paragraph."

The noble Lord said: This amendment and those grouped with it are usually described as being minor and technical amendments. They bring the clause into line with current procedure in cases in which information is passed by a port medical inspector and staff working under their direction in port health units to health service bodies where necessary for specified medical purposes. It also serves to refine the definitions of "health service body" in England, Wales and Scotland for the purposes of the clause.

First, the amendments make it clear that the power is not just to be used in cases in which a person has been brought to the attention of a port medical inspector but also when the person has been referred only to an assistant working under the port medical inspector's direction. The inclusion of assistants in the clause is essential because it is accepted that the medical inspector will not be physically available at

17 Jul 2002 : Column 1386

all times. In those cases, of course it will be desirable—in the interests of both the individual concerned and for the welfare of the general public—that those working under the direction of the medical inspector would not be prevented from carrying out necessary disclosures on the port medical inspector's behalf. Under the clause, they would be allowed to do so only in accordance with very specific guidance issued by the port medical inspector. They would not exercise any judgment of their own but would refer to the port medical inspector's views about when and what to disclose and to which health service or health service body or bodies. Therefore, the power is still technically exercised by the port medical inspector, but the amendment means simply that it can be exercised in his absence. That would reflect current procedures.

Secondly, the amendments revise the definitions of "health service body" to reflect recent changes in the configuration of health services—particularly the creation of primary care trusts in England. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendments Nos. 237 and 238:

Page 61, line 41, leave out paragraph (a) and insert—

"(a) in relation to England, a Primary Care Trust established under section 16A of the National Health Service Act 1977 (c. 49),
(aa) in relation to Wales, a Health Authority or Local Health Board established under that Act,"

Page 62, line 1, at beginning insert "in relation to Scotland,"

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Clause 116, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 117 and 118 agreed to.

Clause 119 [Notice]:

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 238ZA:

Page 63, line 15, leave out paragraphs (b) and (c).

The noble Lord said: In moving Amendment No. 238ZA, I shall speak also to Amendment No. 238ZB. The effect of the amendments would be to simplify the clause by removing the provision for a person to make a declaration, in response to a notice served by the Secretary of State, saying that he does not have the information specified.

The person who genuinely does not have that information will not be committing the offence of failing to provide it because he will have a reasonable excuse and therefore a complete defence. Therefore, there is no need for subsections (3)(b), (3)(c) or (5).

Clause 119 already requires the recipient of a notice served by the Secretary of State to provide the information requested in the notice in the manner specified. By requiring the recipient to make a declaration within a specified time if he did not possess all or part of the information requested, old subsections (3)(b) and (c) and subsection (5) simply

17 Jul 2002 : Column 1387

provided an additional stage of the process which we consider to be unnecessary and unnecessarily complicating. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 238ZB:

Page 63, line 21, leave out subsection (5).

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 119, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 120 [Disclosure of information: offences]:

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 238ZC:

Page 63, line 34, leave out subsections (2) and (3).

The noble Lord said: The effect of Amendment No. 238ZC and Amendment No. 238ZD, which is grouped with it, would be to streamline the new offences currently created by Clause 120 to provide a single offence of failure to comply with a notice served under Clause 119 without reasonable excuse. The resulting clause would be consistent with other legislation, including tax legislation, which adopts the approach of including the mischief of making a false declaration or supplying false information within the offence of failing to comply with a notice requesting information.

The amended clause provides the same range of penalties as before, amalgamated conveniently into one provision. Therefore, the penalty for failure to comply will be a term of imprisonment not exceeding three months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both. It will be for the courts to determine within that range the penalty in each case. A person intentionally making a false declaration would be likely to attract a higher penalty than a person who merely omits to respond to the statutory notice.

Amendments Nos. 238ZE and 238ZF clarify the position of limited partnerships as distinct from "traditional" partnerships in respect of criminal liability for offences created by Clause 120. That reflects the differing status of those bodies with regard to the differing responsibilities of partners in limited partnerships. The amendment would result in all partners in a limited partnership being treated for the purposes of the clause in the same way as officers of a body corporate with sufficient room for the courts to interpret their degree of responsibility where appropriate.

Finally, Amendment No. 238ZG is needed to correct a defect in the self-incrimination defence provided in Clause 122. Close observers will note that Clause 122 is required to ensure that the enforcement

17 Jul 2002 : Column 1388

mechanism underpinning the information powers provided in Clauses 117 to 121 is compatible with the European Convention on Human Rights. But the statutory defence is currently too wide in that it should not cover officers and employees of a body served with an information notice. Thus, it would restrict the possibility of a criminal prosecution of illegal workers detected as a consequence of the exercise of the information powers. The amendment rectifies that defect. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 238ZD:

Page 63, line 39, leave out "(3)" and insert "(1)"

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 120, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 121 [Offence by body]:

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendments Nos. 238ZE and 238ZF:

Page 64, line 14, after "partnership" insert "(other than a limited partnership)"

Page 64, line 15, at end insert—

"( ) Subsection (1) shall have effect in relation to a limited partnership as if—
(a) a reference to a body corporate were a reference to a limited partnership, and
(b) a reference to an officer of the body were a reference to a partner."

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Clause 121, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 122 [Privilege against self-incrimination]:

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 238ZG:

Page 64, line 20, leave out paragraph (b).

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 122, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 123 agreed to.

Lord Filkin: I beg to move that the House do now resume.

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

House resumed.

Justice (Northern Ireland) Bill

Returned from the Commons with the amendments agreed to.

House adjourned at eighteen minutes before one o'clock.

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