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Animal Health Bill

3.13 p.m.

Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.

Moved, That the House do now again resolve itself into Committee.—(Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House again in Committee on Clause 4.

[The CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES in the Chair.]

The Chairman of Committees (Lord Tordoff): Before calling Amendment No. 192, I should inform the Committee that, were it to be agreed to, I should not be able to call Amendments Nos. 193 or 194 because of pre-emption.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil moved Amendment No. 192:

Page 2, leave out lines 32 and 33.

The noble Lord said: Perhaps I may remind the Committee of what I am trying to leave out of the Bill—these brutally simple and rather chilling words:

"The Minister may cause to be slaughtered any animal to which this section applies."

As we read in subsection (1),

"This section applies to any animal which has been treated with vaccine for the purpose of preventing the spread of foot-and-mouth disease or such other disease as the Minister may by order specify."

Those words are simple. They make no concession to anyone: man or beast. They are, as I said in my first remarks, which were pretty well drowned by the exodus of noble Lords, brutal in their simplicity. They are useful in this respect and this respect only: they contain and comprise the whole spirit of the Bill. The Government are clearly saying: "We were right last time; we are always right. But last time we did not have

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quite enough protection against people who invoked the law against us. This time, we shall make no such mistake. We shall have this absolutely sweeping, uncompromising provision:

'The Minister may cause to be slaughtered any animal to which this section applies.'"

I do not intend to make a long speech, but I hope that the Minister has fully received the message—from me, at any rate—that that is a brutal piece of legislation of which the Government ought to be heartily ashamed. I am sorry that they have stained the Order Paper with the Bill and seek to stain the pages of the statute book with such a horrible measure. I do not intend to prolong my remarks at this stage; nor, I imagine, will I be tempted to press my amendment to a Division on this occasion; but I beg the noble Baroness not to underrate the strength of feeling that lies behind this simple amendment, which I beg to move.

Baroness Byford: I follow my noble friend, who has clearly expressed his view on the amendment. The amendments grouped with it reinforce our concern about those words in the Bill. Members of the Committee may remember that when we considered the Bill many months ago, I cast it as the "Animal Death Bill", and the two lines to which my noble friend strongly objects underline the Government's thinking. That is a tremendous shame, because during the summer, as we reflected yesterday, the European Parliament's working group has recommended that vaccination to live should be the first choice option. But as we recommence consideration of the Bill today, that option is not for us to consider; we must consider what is before us, by which I am as appalled as is my noble friend.

While supporting my noble friend so strongly, I shall speak also to Amendments Nos. 194, 195, 201, 202, 204 and 205—I hope that I am correct about the grouping. Turning to Amendment No. 194, the Minister has the option of deciding whether or not the circumstances are right for an animal to be slaughtered. The object of the amendment is to give a terminal date to that power, so that the owner of the animal does not have perpetually hanging over him the possibility that the Minister may finally decide to slaughter.

Amendment No. 195 addresses the fact that the clause is too widely drafted and tends to give legal justification to all kinds of actions. During the most recent outbreak of foot and mouth disease, we all saw on the television and will remember with horror the chasing of cattle with motorbikes and rifles. Our modification of the clause might not make such action immediately illegal, but would sweep away the chance that a clever lawyer might be able to justify such action under the clause as drafted.

No doubt the Minister will assure us that the department would always act reasonably and in an appropriate manner, but I suggest to the Committee that that did not happen during the 2001 outbreak,

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and it is the same department to which we are supposed to give even greater, open-ended powers. The amendment would add the requirement to act in a "reasonable" way to the powers under the clause.

There are two issues relating to Amendment No. 201. First, there is the general objection to the Minister empowering himself to pay compensation for an act that he has ordered. Secondly, the Government can take powers to vaccinate animals upon the satisfaction of certain conditions. Then, the Government can decree that all animals—or all animals of a certain type—that have been vaccinated shall be slaughtered. There is no way in which that second action can be laid at the door of the farmer. Moreover, biosecurity is irrelevant, so how can the farmer be penalised?

I understand that, under article 1 of protocol 1 of the European Convention on Human Rights, the state may deprive a person of his possessions in the public interest only if its actions are provided for by law and are proportionate. I query the validity of the entire section. The report of the European Parliament's working group puts forward a vaccination to live policy. If that proposal is adopted, where would it leave the new section? Our amendment is supported strongly by the National Farmers Union.

Amendment No. 202 outlines the most fair form of compensation. Although it should not happen, the vaccination of an animal against foot and mouth disease may cause a fall in its market value. For example, a cow may be valued at £700 before it is vaccinated but, once vaccinated, be worth only £400. The Minister may decide later to slaughter the animal, forcing the owner to forgo the possibility that the animal's market value may have recovered.

I turn to Amendment No. 204. We wait to see what legislation the Government propose to bring in to secure full implementation of the new EU directives and of the findings of the inquiries, particularly the Royal Society inquiry. We have had the reports, but we have not received a response from the Government. I understand from the Government that that will not appear before the end of this month and that our wait may go on into next month. By that time, the Bill will have left the House. In the absence of new government legislation, we do not want to see the Government exercise such powers without referring to Parliament.

Amendment No. 205, which is our last amendment in the group, presupposes either that the Government have accepted the amendment to subsection (1) or that they have accepted that compensation should be at market value. Certainly, if the Minister decides to pay less than market value and empowers himself to do that, his action should be subject automatically to parliamentary scrutiny.

Lord Livsey of Talgarth: I speak to Amendments Nos. 197, 198 and 199 and also to Amendment No. 205, which we tabled jointly with the Official Opposition. With the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Peyton of Yeovil, we are discussing the slaughter of vaccinated animals. We agree with the

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noble Lord's amendment, and I will not comment further on it, as the noble Lord has made clear the case for it.

Amendment No. 197 would strengthen subsection (3)(b) to read:

"which is otherwise reasonably required in connection with the slaughter".

That test must be put in place to allow the vets and inspectors who are making the decisions to stop and think precisely about what they are doing. They should think, "Is it reasonable to slaughter this animal in these circumstances?"

Subsection (4) of new Section 16A says that the Government must pay,

"compensation of such an amount as may be prescribed by order of the Minister".

We want 100 per cent compensation, and, in that respect, the effect of Amendments Nos. 198 and 199 is similar to Amendments Nos. 201 and 202, tabled by the Conservative Front Bench. Amendment No. 201 stipulates that compensation should be,

"the value of the animal immediately before it was slaughtered".

Amendment No. 202 says that compensation should be,

"the market value of the animal before it was vaccinated".

One way or another, the compensation must be 100 per cent, if the slaughter is ordered by government officers. Amendment No. 199 would enact that provision.

We have added our names to Amendment No. 205, tabled by the Conservatives. It refers to enforcement, an issue that has been covered by speakers on the Conservative Front Bench.

Lord Williamson of Horton: We are dealing with the issue of the slaughter of vaccinated animals. I hope that, before the Bill completes its passage through the House, the Minister will update us on progress towards the conditions necessary to make possible emergency vaccination as an alternative to extensive culling, in line with the Royal Society report. I attach great importance to that report, which signposts the way to the handling of any future outbreak by proposing the culling of infected animals or dangerous contacts, along with the use of vaccination-to-live as an appropriate alternative to extensive culling.

The Minister will recall that the report indicated that there were some issues to be solved—validation of marker vaccines, tests to distinguish between vaccinated and vaccinated-infected animals—and concluded that,

"With significant effort by DEFRA, this should be possible by the end of 2003".

We are now being asked to legislate, but we would like to be assured that we are making progress towards what is set out in the report or, if we are not, that we intend to make such progress. The issues go together. It is likely that there will be a change in policy in the next few years, and we must move forward along that line, if we are to support what is in the Bill.

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