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Lord Avebury: My Lords, when the right reverend Prelate moved the amendment, he discussed the expansion of the detention estate relating to children. I want to probe the Government in that regard. I believe that there are currently 150 family beds in the detention estate, which contains 2,000 places altogether. The Government propose to expand the total detention estate to 4,000. How many places will be for families in that enhanced total?
I am informed that there are currently five family rooms in Tinsley House with five beds each and 16 in Dungavel with three to four beds each; Harmondsworth makes up the balance of 150 beds for 30 to 40 families. I believe that that information was given in a Written Answer in another place on 17th July.
What is the purpose of increasing the estate so that we can detain more and more families with children? At the time of the White Paper, detention of families with children was to be done in wholly exceptional circumstances and for the shortest possible period, as the right reverend Prelate reminded us. Suddenly and with no explanation whatever, the policy changed in October 2001 so that families with children could be detained on almost any criteria whatever; that is what we are being asked to accept if the right reverend Prelate's amendment is not agreed to.
The operation enforcement manual allowed the detention of families for only a few days prior to removal. That was the situation until October 2001. Will the Minister explain—if he is able to do so—what changed in October 2001 to make it suddenly necessary to detain? I happen to know that there is no statistical evidence for that whatever in terms of families absconding. When noble Lords and honourable Members tried to obtain figures showing the objective justification for detention, Ministers were not able to answer.
The current situation was described in a letter of 27th September from Simon Barrett of the Detention Services Policy Unit. He confirmed to Bail for Immigration Detainees, to which we are indebted for much research work relating to the amendments, that:
- "There are no separate criteria for the detention of families with children".
I draw the attention of noble Lords to another part of the concluding observations of the report on the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland that was recently published by the Committee on the Rights of the Child. It reiterated its belief that the UK's reservation about the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child in respect of immigration and nationality legislation,
- "is against the object and purpose of the Convention".
- "that detention of these children is not compatible with the principles and provisions of the Convention".
Lord Corbett of Castle Vale: My Lords, it is right to spend time discussing the detention of children. As a general principle, we would all wish that it could be totally avoided in this circumstance—or in any other, for that matter.
As I listened to the moving story told by the right reverend Prelate—I invite my noble friend the Minister to respond to this—I assumed that the family in detention whom he mentioned had had their application for asylum refused, had been through all of the appeal processes and had been told that they had to leave the United Kingdom. I also assumed that a country had been found—presumably the country from where they came—that was willing to take them back. I assumed all of that. In those precise circumstances, a family has exhausted all of the appeals and is told, "Look, we are terribly sorry, but you must leave the United Kingdom by this or that date". Will my noble friend clarify whether the family can then say, "Okay, give us a week"—or a fortnight, a month or whatever—"and we will leave by whatever date"? If so, that disposes of the problem. Alternatively, in circumstances in which it is felt that the family will not voluntarily leave the United Kingdom—or, indeed, they may have said that they will not voluntarily do so and a decision is taken to put them into detention—are the parents in that case given the opportunity to say whether or not they would prefer the children to be taken into detention with them or to have the children separated from them and taken into care?
Many assumptions are being made in this context. As I listened to the contributions of a number of noble Lords, I thought, "What would I do if I were faced with exactly that circumstance?". As a father and grandfather, my strong feeling is that I would want my children with me. That is my view. I do not believe that I should take that decision for other families; that decision belongs to those families. Will the Minister be kind enough to clarify what happens in that situation and whether choice is available for parents who find themselves in that unhappy position?
5 p.m.
Lord Filkin: My Lords, Amendments Nos. 37, 39 and 40 to Clause 55 would prevent the detention of certain persons under the age of 18 who were subject to further examination at a port of entry or who were deemed to be illegal entrants. They would also prevent such persons being granted temporary admission or release. The powers to do so in paragraphs 21 and 22 of Schedule 2 to the 1971 Act flow from the liability to be detained, which would be removed by these amendments. Thus, such people could not be detained, released or temporarily admitted, subject to reporting or residence requirements. They would be in limbo as a result.
Turning from the legalities to the substance of the amendments, our current policy on the detention of minors is clear. It is, of course, regrettable to have to detain those who are under the age of 18. But there are two limited circumstances where we may decide to do so and where, I suggest, it is entirely appropriate that powers should continue to be available to do so.
The first is where it is considered necessary in line with our policy to detain a family with children. In such cases, it is surely better for the children to be detained with their parents rather than to be separated
from their families. In that case, to suggest that families should not be detained at all is simply unrealistic in the world in which we live. They may need to be detained while their identities or basis of claim are established because they are unlikely to comply with the terms of temporary admission or release. It may also be necessary in order to effect their removal or as part of the fast-track asylum process at Oakington reception centre. These amendments would either prevent that in all cases or would simply require the separation of parents and children. Neither is desirable.Secondly, there are exceptional circumstances where it is necessary to detain an unaccompanied minor while alternative care arrangements are made. That would normally occur only overnight and with appropriate care facilities. Our view is that it would be vastly better, wherever possible, to place such children into the care of a responsible adult—a relative—or for social services to take charge of them, as is clearly what would normally happen, the following day. But sometimes people arrive in the middle of the night, and the Government do not accept that it is appropriate to turn them out on to the streets in such a situation.
Therefore, I am afraid that it is simply unrealistic to suggest that families with children should be exempt from detention. That would be a severe hindrance to effective immigration control and, in terms of the asylum process, would prevent families with children passing through the fast-track process at Oakington reception centre. More generally, effectively it would prevent the removal of families with children who have no lawful basis of stay here but who are not prepared to comply voluntarily with the removal directions. In terms of the minds of the traffickers, I invite the House to reflect upon the effect of that with regard to the potential attractiveness of the United Kingdom as a source for asylum claims.
I am not aware of any shift in policy between the 1999 and 2002 White Papers. We want families to spend as short a time as possible in detention centres and for as few families as possible to do so. However, we do see the necessity for the powers. A figure of 11 months was quoted as the average time. I should be pleased to see the basis for that figure. Our figures state that 64 per cent of all detainees should stay for less than two months. But I shall be happy to examine those figures in detail if they are provided.
In terms of the size of the detention estate, there are currently 161 beds. They are normally provided in four-bed family rooms, giving a nominal capacity of that order. The occupancy figures as at 9th October were that the total number of people detained in removal centres was 1,275—that is all people; the number of family members detained was 88, plus 121 in Oakington; and, out of those 88, the number of children was 36.
The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, raised a number of concerns. I shall be most happy to consider them if he will provide them to me. Detention is not prolonged unnecessarily—
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