Previous Section Back to Table of Contents Lords Hansard Home Page

Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, I was not aware of the precise figure until the noble Viscount said it. I am aware of the problem of plant theft. In different police force areas it is for the chief constable to determine priorities and how best to deploy manpower. The problem is serious, and its seriousness will vary between police areas. Again, I emphasise that it is for chief constables to determine their priorities.

Lord Marlesford: My Lords, if the Government can lay down priorities for street crime, why cannot they do so for this sort of crime?

Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, in relation to street crime the Government identified that there was a significant increase in that type of crime and brought together those, including chief constables, who could best advise on how to deal with it. That led to greater co-operation. In the 10 areas where street crime was at its worst there was a 16 per cent drop, comparing the six months to the end of September 2002 with the previous parallel six-month period.

Lord Elton: My Lords, the Minister introduced the figures for 1921, stating that we have the same number of police as we had in 1921. What was the population of this country in 1921, and what is it now?

Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, the number in the police force is the highest since 1921. Unfortunately, I do not have the population figures available. But I anticipate from the wily way in which the question was asked that the population might have been lower then.

Lord McNally: My Lords, does the Minister believe that sufficient powers are now in place and that there is sufficient co-operation from banks, solicitors, accountants and other professions to provide a necessary response to enable the police to pursue money laundering and other white-collar crime involving the handling of stolen goods?

Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, in the Proceeds of Crime Act that was passed in the last Session, significant powers were given. We need to look to see how those powers work out before we answer the question of whether more powers are required. It is an incredibly important area of law enforcement that needs real concentration.

15 Oct 2002 : Column 699

Transport Strategy in London

3 p.m.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil asked Her Majesty's Government:

    What recent discussions they have had with the Mayor of London concerning his proposals for the movement of both people and vehicles in the area within his control.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, the proposals of the Mayor of London for the movement of both people and vehicles are his responsibility, not the Government's. However, Ministers have regular meetings with the Mayor at which a wide range of transport matters are discussed. The most recent of those was between the Secretary of State and the Mayor on 26th September.

Lord Peyton of Yeovil: My Lords, I would very much like to be present at one of those meetings. Is the Minister aware that there is general surprise and disappointment that the warmth and intimacy which one would expect in relationships between Ministers and the Mayor of London seem somehow to have evaporated? Is he also aware that the present operations of the Mayor on the roads of London have had the remarkable result of increasing the congestion while at the same time the traffic has been diminishing? Not everybody could do that.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I shall see whether I can obtain an invitation for the noble Lord, Lord Peyton, to attend the next meeting. There are of course public meetings in which the Mayor is involved and I am sure that he would be happy to invite the noble Lord to them.

Yes, I am aware because I have read today's Evening Standard and I admire the noble Lord's self-publicity in advance of his Question. Of course these matters are serious, but they are devolved to the administration of London. I do not believe that the noble Lord, Lord Peyton, or anyone else would wish this House to become an urban district council.

Lord Winston: My Lords, is the Minister aware of evidence regarding changes to the phasing of traffic lights in London? If so, under whose authority was that done? Is he also aware that the current congestion in London has caused a huge amount of extra energy to be wasted in the form of spent fuel; a vast amount of wasted man-hours at work because people are unable to travel to their workplace; and huge pollution of London's environment?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, the phasing of traffic lights is a matter for the Mayor of London. I understand that he is working within guidelines, which have been accepted for many years, on the balance

15 Oct 2002 : Column 700

between pedestrians and vehicles. Of course, my noble friend's remaining comments will be communicated to the Mayor, as always.

Lord Bowness: My Lords, does the Minister agree that many transport policies in Greater London have an impact on areas outside? If so, does he agree that the Greater London Authority Act gives the Secretary of State power, where the transport strategy is inconsistent with national policies and the inconsistency is detrimental to areas outside Greater London, to direct the Mayor to make revisions to his transport policies? It is hard to believe that the state of transport in London is consistent with any government objectives and it certainly affects areas outside Greater London. What action is the Secretary of State proposing to take under that section?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Bowness, about the provisions of the Greater London Authority Act. These matters are discussed between Ministers and the Mayor when they meet and they were discussed by the Secretary of State when he met Ken Livingstone and Bob Kiley on 26th September. I do not accept that we are in a position in which the "reserve powers" in the Act need to be invoked.

Lord Richard: My Lords, did I understand my noble friend to say that as regards traffic lights the Mayor is operating within well recognised guidelines? If so, and if that is what the Mayor has told the Government, my experience of driving around London is precisely the opposite. I recently found myself at a junction with the Vauxhall Bridge Road and Rochester Row where we had five seconds—five; I counted them—to get across Vauxhall Bridge Road. It was not that the traffic was moving down that road; it was stationary!

If and when these meetings take place, will my noble friend take back to the Mayor the thought that the obviously intentional way in which the congestion has been caused to London is irritating many normal, law-abiding citizens? He has gone over the top and he ought to be told so.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I understand the temptation which noble Lords have to intervene in matters which have been devolved to the government of London. I share that temptation—I was chairman of the transport and planning central area board of the GLC in 1976 and I have my views, which have been boiling up inside me for 25 years. But I believe that we ought to behave as a second Chamber of Parliament and not as an urban district council. I will communicate my noble friend's views to the Mayor.

Lord Addington: My Lords, the Government's plans suggest that 20 major towns and cities will introduce congestion charges. Many of them are awaiting the

15 Oct 2002 : Column 701

results of London's introduction. Are the Government still committed to the principle of congestion charges as a way of controlling traffic?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, yes, the Government have always been supportive of congestion charges and we have been supportive of the plans for congestion charges put forward by the Mayor of London. That matter was discussed with the Secretary of State on 26th September.

Lord Lloyd-Webber: My Lords, I must—

Viscount Astor: My Lords, perhaps I may—

The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn): My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Lloyd-Webber, has been trying to ask a question for some time.

Lord Lloyd-Webber: My Lords, I must declare an interest in that I am co-owner of 13 West End theatres. I want to bring to your Lordships' attention the mood of despair that exists in the West End, with St Martin's Lane and Charing Cross Road closed southbound and the chaos that that is inducing.

Yesterday I had lunch with the coach operators who bring people to West End theatres and learnt that several of them have permanently abandoned using London as a theatre destination. The traffic and drug problems are rendering London a no-go area for theatre-goers. Will the Government urgently address the health of London as a major capital city and world destination?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, the noble Lord speaks with great authority and his views are taken seriously. If he would care to act as an intermediary for the coach operators and communicate with the Government and the Mayor, I have no doubt that those views will be taken extremely seriously.

Business of the House

3.7 p.m.

Lord Grocott: My Lords, with the leave of the House, three Statements will be repeated from another place today. The first, on Bali, will be repeated by my noble and learned friend the Leader of the House at a convenient time after 3.30 p.m. The other two will be repeated at a convenient time after 6.30 p.m. The second Statement, on Northern Ireland, will be repeated by my noble and learned friend the Leader of the House, and the third Statement, on A-levels, will be repeated by my noble friend Lady Ashton.

15 Oct 2002 : Column 702

It may be for the convenience of the House if I take this opportunity to mention that the date of the State Opening is to be Wednesday 13th November.

Next Section Back to Table of Contents Lords Hansard Home Page