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Baroness Barker: My Lords, I rise to support the noble Earl, Lord Howe. I, too, ask for considerable detail as to what the words "other information" are likely to mean. I believe that that would cut down a great deal of present fear and doubt for children and their parents. It would also spare us the extended attention of lawyers and courts, which is always a good thing in my view.
I should like to take the opportunity to say publicly that in Grand Committee the noble Earl, Lord Howe, and I were deeply critical of the department and its handling of inter-country adoptions. I believe that there has been a considerable amount of clarification and improvement on that matter, much to the satisfaction of people who are users of the department's services. That is evident in some of the changes that have been brought forward to the Bill.
This is not churlishness on our part; it is simply trying to make a difficult judgment clearer for all concerned. As we said in Grand Committee, the last thing that any of us wants is to in any way give any quarter to those who would traffick in children or seek to bring in children and get around the necessarily robust systems. I thank the department for the effort that it has made so far. I ask the Minister for a little more clarification.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I hope that I can reassure both noble Lords who have spoken on the amendment. I start by setting out what we think the amendment achieves. It is aimed at the provision in Schedule 1 that enables an entry to be made in relation to a registrable foreign adoption on the adopted children register, which is maintained by the registrar-general. The amendment would widen the meaning of registrable foreign adoption to include those adoptions where the High Court so orders, irrespective of when or where the adoption order was granted if it is in the interests of the adopted person. That would mean that the registrar-general would be under a duty to make an entry in the adopted children register where the High Court so orders. I believe that that is common ground.
It is clear that the amendment has been tabled out of concern about the particulars or information that adopters must supply to the registrar-general in order for a foreign adoption to be registered. It is clear from
what the noble Earl, Lord Howe, said that in some cases it may be difficult to provide the information. He gave the example of the birth name of a child coming from China.I hope to be able to reassure both noble Lords that the information requirements are both reasonable and essential. The registrar-general has a duty to maintain an accurate record of an adoption. His ability to fulfil that function rests on the quality of the information passed to him.
The particulars required for the registration of foreign adoptions by the registrar-general will be set out in regulations which are currently being developed. He will need to be satisfied that he has enough information to make a registration in the adopted children register. But, in order to make a registration, he needs basic information only. The minimum requirements are the child's date and country of birth, his adoptive names—in other words, not necessarily the birth name, which was what the noble Earl, Lord Howe, was worried about—the adoptive parents' names and occupations, which will clearly be available, and the name of the court and the date on which the adoption took place.
Almost all this information should be readily available to genuine adopters. It is perfectly legitimate to request it from them. Even if the precise date of birth is not known—that seems to me to be the only difficulty in the list that I have given—the registrar-general is prepared to accept an approximate date of birth. He does this now for domestic adoptions and in all cases of general registration where these details are inadequate, such as where the child is a foundling.
If the registration is for a foreign adoption, the registrar-general also needs evidence that the adoption is either a convention adoption or an overseas adoption, as defined in Clause 86. The information which identifies the court and the date when the adoption was made should be sufficient for the registrar-general to establish these facts.
Other information which would be helpful, but which is not essential for a registration on the adopted children register, includes the place or the locality of the child's birth, the full names of the natural father and mother, and any previous names for the child. The information about the birth family name could be needed if an adopted person wanted later in life to have an entry registered on the adoption contact register. Information about the birth family would be necessary so as to link an entry on the register for the adopted person with an entry for a relative.
There are a number of problems with the amendment which would extend the registration of foreign adoptions to adoptions from countries where we are not satisfied that the procedures safeguard the needs of children, birth parents and adopters. However, it is not clear that the High Court, which would be the deciding body, would have any more evidence than the registrar-general to suggest that an adoption should be registered. The amendment also appears to interfere with the registrar-general's function as custodian and administrator of records and registers.
The intention of the provision in Schedule 1 is not to restrict the registration of legitimate overseas adoptions but to facilitate it. I hope that the noble Earl, Lord Howe, is now reassured that only basic information is needed for registration on the adopted children register, and that he will not pursue the amendment.
8.30 p.m.
Earl Howe: My Lords, I am reassured and thank the Minister for setting on the record how the provisions will operate.
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, before the noble Earl decides what to do with the amendment, I did not respond to the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, for which I apologise. She talked about delays experienced by applicants. We very much regret those delays and are working hard to overcome them. There is now a settled, experienced workforce in place that processes applications quickly and provides information about procedures in other countries and advice about the process.
Baroness Barker: My Lords, I am happy to note that and thank the Minister for that observation.
Earl Howe: My Lords, I, too, am pleased to hear what the Minister said. He will appreciate that my amendment was intended primarily as a probing device to elicit from the Government the answers to some real and pressing queries on the issue from several quarters. For my part, I was satisfied by what the Minister said; I hope that I am right to be satisfied; if not, no doubt I shall be advised accordingly. With thanks to the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 79 [Connections between the register and birth records]:
Baroness Noakes moved Amendment No. 87:
- Page 45, line 7, at end insert—
The noble Baroness said: We now come to a slightly odd group of amendments. I shall speak to Amendment No. 87 in a moment, but expect to be able
The Government have prospectively recognised the human misery that that lack of access to information entails. In Grand Committee, we were all affected by the stories we heard about how lives have been blighted by the inability to contact a son, daughter or other relative lost through adoption. Clause 61 allows information to be given about adopted persons once they are adult, but it will not have retrospective effect, so it will have no effect for several years to come until future adoptees are at least 18 years of age. The Bill contains no information rights for adoptions before the Bill comes into effect, but that is where the need is greatest.
We are not necessarily discussing adoptions that took place in the recent past but those when social attitudes to illegitimacy resulted in a large number of adoptions which mothers, in particular, came to regard as forced on them: during the 1940s, 1950s and even the 1960s. Those adopted children may themselves now be in their 60s; they may have unknown siblings of much the same age; and their birth parents may easily be in their 80s or older. So, for many, the Bill is the last chance to open up the possibility of tracing their lost family members.
That is why, in Grand Committee, we pressed amendments that would have given retrospective rights to obtain information. They had the full backing of the National Organisation for Counselling Adoptees and their Parents and the Children's Society—indeed, I pay tribute to their valiant efforts to find an appropriate formula—but our arguments fell on stony ground. For Report, I first tabled Amendment No. 87, which is similar to an amendment considered in Grand Committee, which, briefly, is a modest amendment to empower adoption support agencies to get information about adoption from the Registrar General. The adoption charities then drafted a further amendment, Amendment No. 88, which sought to address some of the Department of Health's concerns—in particular about the Registrar General's duties, fees, interactions with local authorities and adoption agencies and phased implementation.
I shall not pretend that Amendment No. 88 is perfect in legal terms. I had expected the Minister to chide me on its deficiencies—indeed he may still do so. But that will not be necessary, because last Friday the Government found themselves on the road to Damascus and tabled Amendment No. 96A, which deals with the problem. I know that adoption charities have welcomed that new clause and so do we on these Benches.
I shall of course leave it to the Minister to explain in detail how the new clause will work in practice and do not rule out returning to the detail at Third Reading
Secondly, will the Minister tell us when he expects regulations to take effect and whether he expects a phased implementation of the new provisions? In particular, does he expect pre- and post-1975 adoptions to be dealt with differently and, if so, how?
Thirdly, the new clause allows fees to be charged. There is clearly concern about fees charged to adoption support agencies facilitating contact. Their costs must be covered by fees for those who are searching or, as is likely, by charitable funds. Will the Minister undertake that fees charged will be limited to the costs reasonably incurred by those making the charges? Fourthly, will he say something about the availability of Section 64 money to adoption support agencies to enable them to gear up their infrastructure to deal with the new provisions?
Lastly, can the Minister explain why the Chancellor of the Exchequer should have a power of veto over regulations affecting the Registrar General to be made under new subsections (2), (3) and (4) of the new clause? I can understand why he should have a power of veto over fee levels set by the Registrar General, who is in the Chancellor's own empire, but not over the basic regulation-making powers. If the Minister considers the corresponding provision in Clause 65(4), he will see that the Chancellor's powers are there restricted to the matter of fees, not to other regulations.
I am well aware that the Chancellor now thinks that he controls policy in the Department of Health. His Wanless funding review and, more recently, his control of the foundation hospital agenda are proof of that. But I am sure that the Minister will agree that it is not healthy for the Chancellor's powers to creep yet further into the Department of Health's legislation. I beg to move.
"(7A) The Registrar General shall maintain and make available a list of adoption support agencies registered under section 8 undertaking to provide intermediary support services between adopted persons and birth relatives in accordance with regulations under section 9(1)(b).
(7B) On an application made in the prescribed manner by a registered adoption support agency for information relating to a person adopted before the appointed day, the Registrar General shall provide such information held by the Registrar General necessary to obtain a certified copy of the adoption entry relating to a person.
(7C) The Registrar General shall not be responsible to any person to whom a list of adoption support agencies is provided for any arrangement made to provide intermediary services between an adopted person and birth relatives or any failure to make such an arrangement.
(7D) An adoption support agency which obtains information in accordance with subsection (7B) shall not disclose the identity of the adopted person to any other person or body without the consent in the prescribed manner of the adopted person."
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