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Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I do not see how one can do that. Of course I shall take that back and I will write to the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, about it, but she herself made clear the need for regulations to get the matter right. That is why we cannot write it into the Bill. We plan that the regulations will come into effect with the Bill; we are not deliberately delaying them beyond the Bill's implementation, but I cannot see that it can be done quickly. I do not see how there can be exceptional cases without potential injustice.
I do not know whether the House wishes me to go through the provisions of Amendment No. 96A. I shall do it rapidly. Proposed subsection (1) provides that the power in Clause 9 can be used to make regulations to provide for,
- "(a) assisting persons adopted before the appointed day who have attained the age of 18 to obtain information in relation to their adoption, and
- (b) facilitating contact between such persons and their relatives".
New subsection (3)(a) will provide us with the power through regulation to set out the circumstances where registered adoption support agencies, the registrar- general and the adoption agencies are to be able or required to disclose information. New subsection (3)(b) provides us with a power through regulations to require the court to disclose information to an ASA. That will enable the ASA to contact the adoption agency involved in the adoption to ensure that it is aware of any information the agency holds that is relevant to the case with which it is dealing.
It is essential that the sensitive identifying information that the adoption support agency will be able to obtain from the registrar-general or the adoption agency is properly safeguarded and disclosed only in certain circumstances. New subsection (3) also makes provision to provide for conditions to be attached to the disclosure, including the further disclosure of information.
I turn to the third question of the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes. The resource implications for adoption agencies of assessing and providing information to adoption support agencies are difficult to predict. No one knows how many applications there will be. It is important that the service does not reduce the resources available to adoption agencies. I confirm that we have already committed ourselves to the use of Section 64 money for that purpose. We shall be consulting on the detail.
The noble Baroness asked me whether the fee levels would be limited to costs. They will be limited to reasonable costs; I am grateful that we are in accord on
the matter. Regulations that will place requirements on the registrar-general will be subject to the approval of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as provided for by new subsection (6). The reason why the Chancellor of the Exchequer is involved is that the registrar-general is the national statistician and reports to the Chancellor of the Exchequer rather than the Department of Health.New subsection (7) provides definitions for the appointed day, for a registered adoption support agency and for a relative in relation to an adopted person. The use of regulations, coupled with the powers in Clause 136, will enable the scheme to be phased in to help registered adoption support agencies, adoption agencies, the registrar-general and the courts to manage the demands from applicants for the new service. That will allow for the scheme to apply first to adoptions made before 12th November 1975—the older people to whom the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, referred. The second phase would then apply the scheme to all adoptions made before the appointed day.
The Government will consult on any proposed phasing-in of the scheme. This is a balanced, workable scheme with safeguards to protect information that adoption support agencies will be able to obtain. It provides for the flow of information between one agency and another, for it to be passed to the subject of an application but not to the applicant, and for information to be disclosed only if consent is forthcoming.
We need to ensure that the adoption support agency can pass certain information back to the applicant, such as where the subject of the application has died. In those circumstances, others could be identified by the disclosure of identifying information, so we need to consider, for example, providing for the adopters to be asked for their views. Through regulations we will make provision for such circumstances and others where a person is not able to give informed consent.
We will consult fully on the drafting and accompanying guidance and I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, that we will be looking to give publicity to the scheme when we have something definite to say.
I turn to efficiency savings. We are enabling and requiring adoption support agencies to do things they do not do at present. Section 64 money will be available to them for restructuring. Some public expenditure will be involved; whether there are efficiency savings remains to be seen.
Amendment No. 169A seeks to insert in Clause 144 a reference to the new clause for pre-commencement adoptions information to enable the appropriate Minister to appoint a day when it shall commence. In connection with the new clause we will also be tabling at Third Reading a number of consequential amendments. I am grateful to the favourable reception
that has been given to the clause and I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, will not press Amendment No. 87.
Baroness Noakes: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that comprehensive description of the new clause. I associate myself with the rather more forceful welcome to it given by the noble Baroness, Lady Barker. The societies have worked hard on this for many months and I know that they are delighted with it and look forward to meeting the challenges in its practical application. I therefore have much pleasure in withdrawing Amendment No. 87 and look forward to Amendment No. 96A when we reach its place in the Marshalled List. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I beg to move that further consideration on Report be now adjourned.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
Public Trustee (Liability and Fees) Bill [HL]
Returned from the Commons agreed to with a privilege amendment; the privilege amendment was considered and agreed to.
HSBC Investment Banking Bill [HL]
Returned from the Commons agreed to.
Barclays Group Reorganisation Bill [HL]
Returned from the Commons agreed to with amendments.
- House adjourned at nine o'clock.
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