House of Lords
Tuesday, 22nd October 2002.
The House met at half-past two of the clock: The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Oxford.
The Lord Chancellor: Leave of Absence
The Lord Chancellor (Lord Irvine of Lairg): My Lords, before business begins, I take the opportunity to inform the House that I will be making the Keynote Address at the Records Management in Government Conference, in Bristol, on Thursday 24th October, when the House will sit. Accordingly, I trust that the House will grant me leave of absence.
Information Technology Practitioners
Baroness Sharp of Guildford asked Her Majesty's Government:
- Whether the numbers currently being trained in information technology systems support in the United Kingdom are adequate.
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I can confirm that the supply of specialist information technology practitioners is forecast to meet foreseeable demand. The specialist ICT labour market, however, is dynamic and subject to fluctuation. We continue to monitor it closely and to work with our partners in education and industry to maintain the long-term supply of skills needed to meet the demands of the modern economy.
Baroness Sharp of Guildford: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. However, is he aware that the key skills shortages in the industry are at level 3 and level 4 and that we are currently totally failing to meet that demand? It is estimated that, next year, for example, there will be 280,000 unfilled vacancies in the industry. We desperately need to train people up to that level. In schemes such as Learn Direct, the Government have been addressing only the need at level 2, which is the GCSE equivalent, rather than the need at level 3 which is the A- level equivalent. How do the Government propose to meet this very serious and critical skills shortage?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the noble Baroness has identified an area of some concern, but I have some good news for her. In 2001, just under 70,000 further education students in the United Kingdom completed a level 3 or higher ICT course, which is a 230 per cent increase on the 1998 figure. Although I recognise that we need to increase performance and the numbers coming through in this
field, there is a clear indication that the number of students enrolling and succeeding in these courses is increasing.
Lord Tanlaw: My Lords, can the Minister enlighten us about what is happening in the regions? It is very difficult to receive broadband in some of the regions. How can schools, local postmasters and farming communities readapt to a new world if they do not have access to broadband or anyone to teach them how to use it?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for identifying another crucial issue. There is no doubt at all that access to broadband is absolutely crucial for regional development, regional economies and, as he rightly identified, relatively small-scale organisations such as SMEs, all of which require access to these opportunities. I therefore assure the noble Lord that the Government are taking the issue very seriously. He has rightly identified an issue of crucial concern in the development of regional policy and regional economies.
Baroness Blatch: My Lords, does the Minister accept that many good, bona fide IT providers were let down by the failure of the Individual Learning Account scheme? Will there be a replacement scheme? If so, will it include higher-level technology as referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the noble Baroness is right that withdrawal of the ILA scheme created a gap. We are working to replace the scheme, and considerable efforts are being made to ensure that people are able to engage in this training. We seek to develop relationships with the private sector whereby those who provide the systems also provide the training at a reasonably low cost. IT learning opportunities are increasing very significantly. There has, for example, been an encouraging increase in the number of people enrolled on part-time and full-time courses developed over the past few years. We therefore accept that we must replace the ILA. I hope that the noble Baroness will recognise that the Government are taking steps on the supply side to ensure that such courses are provided.
Lord Pilkington of Oxenford: My Lords, what provision have the Government made for broadband in rural areas where cable provision is obviously impossible? What is the Government's attitude to bringing broadband to those remote rural areas?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, as I indicated a few moments ago, this is a challenging and testing problem. We all know the difficulties of providing these resources in areas where it is exceedingly difficult to install cable. Indeed, we recognised that fact a few years ago when we addressed the issue of television channels. We also recognise that, in terms of the private market, there are limited returns on provision in certain parts of the country. I assure the noble Lord
that the overall thrust of our policy on devolution and the regions obliges us to pay serious attention to opportunities in rural areas and the regions. I assure him that the Government regard that as an important priority.
Baroness O'Cathain: My Lords, will the Minister consider whether people in their fifties with IT skills who have been made redundant in various parts of the country—IT skills are not always the preserve of young people—could become trainers or consultants to small and medium-sized enterprises and to clusters of farms? That could be a wonderful outcome both for those who have the relevant skills and for the people they would train.
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the House will recognise that that is a most constructive suggestion against the background of the problems in certain parts of industry which have resulted in a substantial number of well-qualified people dropping out of employment over the past 18 months or so. We should ensure not only that those skills are not lost but also that they are used to the public good. We are considering ways of providing a strategy developed through local LSCs whereby those skills are employed to the benefit of the community.
The Earl of Northesk: My Lords, given the thrust of the noble Baroness's original Question, can the Minister tell us whether the National Hi-Tech Crime Unit is now fully staffed?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I am straying a little out of area if I refer to that unit, but as I understand the position, serious attempts have been made to increase the numbers employed in the unit. However, I shall have to write to the noble Earl with regard to whether the unit is fully staffed.
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood: My Lords, does the Minister see a correlation between the shortage of level 4 quality graduate specialists in this area and the difficulty of providing, recruiting and retaining enough competent information technology and computer scientists in the university sector as salaries outside the university sector are exceptionally high? There is a real problem here which may well not apply across all areas of academic discipline. Will the Minister consider discussing the matter with Universities UK?
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the noble Lord has rightly identified a particular problem in higher education which relates to the number of students coming through. I emphasise that the number of computer science graduates has increased substantially in recent years. However, I recognise the point that the noble Lord makes; that is, that university salaries for the particular skills we are discussing are not always competitive with those
offered elsewhere. I am sure that the Minister would be only too pleased to discuss the matter with higher education institutions.Palace of Westminster: Security
2.45 p.m.
Lord Glentoran asked Her Majesty's Government:
- In the light of alleged political espionage in the Northern Ireland Office, what action they will take, including consultation with the House authorities, to ensure that a similar situation has not occurred and will not occur in the Palace of Westminster.
The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn): My Lords, there has been no suggestion emerging from the investigation that there is any similar activity in the Palace of Westminster. There are arrangements in place in the Palace to prevent breaches of security. The House authorities rightly never discuss the details of such security arrangements. If there was fear of a security breach in the Palace, it would be the responsibility of Scotland Yard in conjunction with the House authorities to investigate that matter.
Lord Glentoran: My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for that comprehensive Answer. However, does he not agree with me that Sinn Fein has seriously abused the democratic process and that the surest way to ensure that the Palace of Westminster is not contaminated by Sinn Fein spy rings is to withdraw all privileges, including access to the Palace, from Sinn Fein until it has met the Prime Minister's demand made last week to disband PIRA and become true democrats?
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