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Lord Williams of Mostyn: My Lords, we need to bear in mind that a police investigation is going on. As I advised your Lordships a few days ago, whether we like or despise the proposed defendants, they still have their democratic rights. Your Lordships recently discussed the question of privileges in the Palace of Sinn Fein Members of Parliament. That is a matter, of course, for the relevant House committee in the usual way, subject to the endorsement of the House.
Lord Waddington: My Lords, does the noble and learned Lord agree that the Northern Ireland Executive had to be suspended because the terrorists with whom Sinn Fein is associated refused to forswear violence? In those circumstances what possible justification can there be for Sinn Fein members, who have disqualified themselves from serving in government in Northern Ireland and who refuse to take their seats and do their work as MPs in the other place, to be rewarded with accommodation and lavish expenses to the tune of £100,000 each a year at the expense of the British taxpayer?
Lord Williams of Mostyn: My Lords, the noble Lord knows, as we have been over this matter on many occasions, that the decisions to which he refers are
essentially, in the overwhelming majority of cases, questions for the House of Commons. I personally believe—I think that the House would agree—that the decision taken by Dr Reid to suspend the Assembly was absolutely right. It was supported by the United States administration and the Government of the Irish Republic. It is an extremely important step. However, I cannot give answers to the noble Lord, Lord Waddington, on matters which are essentially within the jurisdiction of the House of Commons.
Lord Smith of Clifton: My Lords, can the noble and learned Lord assure the House that all the systems of electronic messaging are as secure as they can be?
Lord Williams of Mostyn: My Lords, the Security Service has been asked to carry out a thorough root and branch scrutiny of the arrangements in the Northern Ireland Office. That is under way at the moment. I shall not, of course, be able to announce the results of that inquiry for obvious reasons.
Lord Rogan: My Lords, the discovery of the alleged republican spy ring at Stormont has raised fears that such activities are taking place right across government both in Northern Ireland and here on the mainland. Not all of your Lordships might be aware that the Home Civil Service and the Northern Ireland Civil Service are quite separate entities. Can the noble and learned Lord assure me that the security requirements for entry to the ranks of the Northern Ireland Civil Service are as stringent as those to comparable ranks of the Home Civil Service and, if not, why not?
Lord Williams of Mostyn: My Lords, I can give that assurance, but, nevertheless, it is important that we take every additional step which is why I answered the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton, in the way that I did. There is a security assessment being carried out at the moment.
Lord Tebbit: My Lords, can the Minister tell us whether the Government have any longer any doubt that Mr Gerry Adams is a member of the IRA's Army Council?
Lord Williams of Mostyn: My Lords, that is not an answer that I am capable of giving.
Baroness Park of Monmouth: My Lords, the newspapers report that the three IRA men who are held in Colombia have given as their reasons for being there that they wanted to get to know the people, admire the natural beauty and study the peace process as practised in Colombia. Does the noble and learned Lord believe that any of those three reasons apply to the gentlemen—I have to call them that—who are now here representing Sinn Fein and could he tell me what is the point of them being here? What are they doing for the peace process?
Lord Williams of Mostyn: My Lords, I do not know the nature of the defence of the defendants in
Colombia. A trial is about to start. However, I can say, having defended many people in criminal trials on many occasions, that the ingenuity of the human mind knows few limits.Work-related Stress
2.50 p.m.
Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen asked Her Majesty's Government:
- What progress is being made by the Health and Safety Commission on its work on stress.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Hollis of Heigham): My Lords, the Health and Safety Commission has identified work-related stress as a priority programme in achieving its PSA targets. The commission has commissioned considerable research—for example, on the impact on work performance—and the HSE has published new guidance and last week launched a new website that gives practical information and which will help to share best practice on measures that work. It is a 10-year programme and it is designed to change workplace culture and to ensure that all aspects of employees' welfare are taken seriously.
Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen: My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that helpful reply. Is she aware that last week, which was the European health and safety week, the Andrea Adams Trust (of which I am president), Amicus (of which I am a member) and the Work Foundation launched a new initiative on bullying at work? Does she agree that bullying is one of the great concerns affecting working people and that it causes stress for them?
Baroness Hollis of Heigham: Yes, my Lords, I am indeed aware of and welcome that initiative. Bullying and harassment have no place in today's work environment and are unacceptable wherever they occur. Employees should be able to work without fear of bullying from employers—or, indeed, from anyone else. As noble Lords will be aware, the Government take that seriously. We made a manifesto commitment in 2001 to work with managers and employees to tackle the problem. As a result, the Health and Safety Executive is constructing management standards and is in the process of forming an advisory committee to feed into that work, which we hope will be in place by 2004–05.
Lord Bradshaw: My Lords, does the Minister agree that what some people call stress others describe as stimulation? There is a gradient between the two. Will she give an assurance that before the Health and Safety Executive makes any fresh regulations, in this or other fields, it will undertake a cost-benefit analysis of what the regulations will cost and what burdens will be placed on employers?
Baroness Hollis of Heigham: My Lords, I certainly accept that the response to stress may very well vary
with the personality of individuals; that is obviously assumed. Stress may range from violence at work from clients and bullying and harassment to physical problems associated with noise and vibration, unfortunate and inadequate supervision and inappropriate prioritising of work. Those are real issues that can and often do translate into physical illness. For example, we know from the 1990s Finnish study on cardiovascular mortality—the figures date from 1973 onwards—that those who experience work-related stress are twice as likely to die of heart disease. It can also lead to stomach upsets, fatigue and headaches as well as to serious mental health problems. While the noble Lord is right to suggest that people's capacity to cope with stress may vary, none the less employers have a responsibility to ensure that the workplace does not make employees ill.
Lord Campbell of Alloway: My Lords—
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff: My Lords—
Baroness Gould of Potternewton: My Lords, does my noble friend agree—
Lord Campbell of Alloway: My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for giving way. Having listened with rapt attention to the Minister, does she agree that it appears that we shall have to try to define stress before we start a regulation?
Baroness Hollis of Heigham: My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right. That is why the Health and Safety Executive has defined stress as an adverse reaction to excessive pressures. In its recent literature to employers it spelt out what those pressures might include, such as increased workload, lack of management support and some of the issues that I identified in response to the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, including bullying, the lack of a proper job description and unmanaged change. We are trying not to place burdens on business or to introduce excessive regulation but to change a workplace culture in order to improve performance, job satisfaction and therefore productivity.
Baroness Gould of Potternewton: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that apart from the areas that she has already outlined in relation to stress, a key factor must be increasing national competitiveness and welfare at work, when one considers that the cost to the British economy is more than £3 billion a year?
Baroness Hollis of Heigham: My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right. Coming new to this field, I was startled by the figures. The latest statistics that I have are for 1995, when 19.5 million days were lost to sickness from work, and one-third of them—6.5 million days—were lost to stress-related complaints and illnesses. I emphasise that one-third of all days taken for sickness from work were related to stress.
The cost to employers, as my noble friend said, is in the order of one-third of a billion pounds and to society nearly £4 billion a year.
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