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Aberdare, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Biffen, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Bowness, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carrington, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Cooke of Islandreagh, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Craig of Radley, L.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dundee, E.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Glentoran, L.
Greenway, L.
Hanham, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Inge, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
Kirkham, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Liverpool, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L. [Teller]
Marlesford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Montrose, D.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patten, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Plumb, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rees, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Seccombe, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Slim, V.
Strange, B.
Thatcher, B.
Trefgarne, L.
Tugendhat, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Walpole, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wilcox, B.
Windlesham, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chester, Bp.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Greaves, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hylton, L.
Jones, L.
Jordan, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller]
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
Northover, B.
Orme, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Walton, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rea, L.
Richard, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Roper, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Stern, B.
Strabolgi, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L. (Lord Privy Seal)
Williamson of Horton, L.
Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.
12.11 p.m.
Clause 11 [Investigations into current police practices and policies]:
Lord Williams of Mostyn moved Amendment No. 9:
- Page 7, line 34, after "investigation," insert—
The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, the amendment explains itself. The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, brought forward an amendment on Report which I promised to look at and possibly redraft. I hope that this amendment satisfies the noble Lord.
However, before formally moving the amendment, I should explain that when I said the ombudsman would have the power to deal with various complaints against designated civilians, including contracted-out staff, "as soon as commencement occurred", I was wrong. It is "when the appropriate regulations are brought forward". I formally correct that. I beg to move.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Williams of Mostyn moved Amendments Nos. 10 to 12:
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Clause 17 [Provision of information to Board]:
Lord Williams of Mostyn moved Amendment No. 13:
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Glentoran moved Amendment No. 14:
The noble Lord said: My Lords, the amendment represents another attempt to allow the Chief Constable to appoint to the Police Service of Northern Ireland persons of any rank. At the moment there are problems with the number of serving officers. The Chief Constable has quite significant gaps in his force, about which I know he is concerned.
I can be very brief because I am seeking only reassurance. I understand that, as the law stands, the Chief Constable can do what my amendment seeks he should be able to do. Section 98(1) of the Police Act 1996 states:
If that provision still stands—and I have no reason to believe that it does not—I shall have no more to say. But, as we are at Third Reading, if it does not stand I shall be in a slightly embarrassing situation. I beg to move.
Lord Williams of Mostyn: My Lords, the amendment is defective. Paragraph (a) would allow the Chief Constable to appoint to the Police Service of Northern Ireland persons of any rank. Under the 2000 Act, appointments at assistant chief constable level and above are not for the Chief Constable but for the Policing Board. I am obliged to point out that defect in the amendment.
More fundamentally—and this goes to the heart of the matter—if the amendment is agreed to, the Secretary of State would be able to appoint police officers of any rank. I have dealt with that point.
I hope I can reassure your Lordships—particularly the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran—that the amendment is not necessary. Police officers from other United Kingdom police services of the rank of sergeant and above are not subject to the 50:50 requirement, which applies only to entrants at trainee—that is, constable—level. So, subject to the usual constraints, the Chief Constable can make as many appointments as he likes of sergeants, inspectors, and so on up to
The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, is right, Section 98 of the 1996 Act still provides for secondment—but on a short-term basis only. I believe that meets the noble Lord's point because it is the possible short-term gap that he seeks to identify and fill. So I am able to give him that reassurance. I am only able to give it because he asked a specific question—it had not been in my mind earlier—and I give it on the basis of the material provided to me.
Let me reiterate the last point that I made. If the Chief Constable and the Policing Board wanted to vary the 50:50 provisions we would give such a request serious consideration. But the noble Lord has put his finger on the fact that this is already dealt with in the point that he has researched.
"(aa) his reasons for making that decision,"
Page 8, leave out lines 15 and 16 and insert "is information of a kind mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) of subsection (4)."
Page 8, line 21, leave out from "information" to end of line 22 and insert "is information of a kind mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) of subsection (4)."
Page 8, line 22, at end insert—
"(4) The information referred to in subsections (2) and (3) is—
(a) information the disclosure of which would be likely to put an individual in danger;
(b) information which ought not to be disclosed on any of the grounds mentioned in section 76A(1).""
Page 10, line 19, at end insert—
"(3) Subsection (4) applies if the Chief Constable is of the opinion that information which he would otherwise be required to supply to the Board under subsection (1) is information the disclosure of which would be likely to put an individual in danger.
(4) The Chief Constable may, instead of supplying the information to the Board, supply it to the committee constituted by the Board under paragraph 24(1A) of Schedule 1.
(5) Subsection (6) applies if the Chief Constable supplies the Board or the committee with information which in his opinion is—
(a) information the disclosure of which would be likely to put an individual in danger, or
(b) information which ought not to be disclosed on any of the grounds mentioned in section 76A(1).
(6) The Chief Constable must—
(a) inform the Secretary of State that the information has been supplied to the Board or the committee;
(b) inform the Secretary of State and the recipient of the information that, in his opinion, the information is information of a kind mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) of subsection (5)."
After Clause 17, insert the following new clause—
"APPOINTMENTS TO THE POLICE SERVICE OF NORTHERN IRELAND
The Secretary of State may, at the request of a majority of the Policing Board, and acting on the recommendation of the Chief Constable, by order—
(a) permit the Chief Constable to appoint to the Police Service of Northern Ireland persons of any rank from other constabularies within the United Kingdom as he deems appropriate; and
(b) permit the Chief Constable, as he deems appropriate, in making an appointment under paragraph (a), to exempt those persons from such entry procedures as are normally applicable to direct appointees to the Police Service of Northern Ireland."
"The chief officer of a police force in England or Wales may, on the application of the chief officer of a police force in Scotland or the chief constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, provide constables or other assistance for the purpose of enabling the Scottish force or the Royal Ulster Constabulary to meet any special demand on its resources".
12.15 p.m.
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