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Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 55:



"( ) Where subsection (1) is satisfied by policies set out in a statement prepared before the coming into force of that subsection, it does not matter that the policies were not formulated for the purposes of that subsection.
( ) Subsection (4) may be satisfied by consultation before, as well as by consultation after, the coming into force of this section."

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 18 [Strategy for Wales]:

[Amendment No. 56 not moved.]

Clause 19 [Strategy for Northern Ireland]:

[Amendment No. 57 not moved.]

Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 58:


    Page 13, line 42, at end insert—


"( ) Where subsection (1) is satisfied by policies set out in a statement prepared before the coming into force of that subsection, it does not matter that the policies were not formulated for the purposes of that subsection.
( ) Subsection (4) may be satisfied by consultation before, as well as by consultation after, the coming into force of this section."

On Question, amendment agreed to.

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Clause 22 ["Scheme year" and "target year"]:

[Amendments Nos. 59 to 61 not moved.]

[Amendment No. 62 not moved.]

Clause 24 [Activities to which Chapter 1 does not apply]:

Lord Dixon-Smith moved Amendment No. 63:


    Page 15, line 33, leave out "small"

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I have little confidence that the Government will accept my amendment to leave out the word "small" from the clause. I accept the Government's difficulties with transposition of regulations from one language to another. But, for the life of me, I cannot understand what a small waterway is. If one digs out a ditch, is it a small waterway? At the other extreme, while I was at school, the River Nene was thoroughly dredged out and all the material deposited along the banks. Is that a small waterway?

My other reason for moving the amendment is to apologise to the House, particularly the Minister. I am afraid that we had a group of amendments, one of which related to Clause 24(1), to which the Government were sympathetic. Unfortunately, for some strange reason, they did not get deposited. I regret that we shall have to table them at Third Reading. I had hoped to avoid that. I beg to move.

Lord Whitty: My Lords, as the noble Lord says, this is a problem of transposition of the terms of the directive into the Bill. Removing the word "small" would mean that deposited waste alongside all waterways would be excluded from references to sending waste to landfill. That would mean that the Bill would have a narrower definition than that in the directive, leaving us with the possibility of a challenge from the Commission and a potential adverse judgment. Although the possibility is remote, noble Lords will agree that that would be undesirable.

The amendment would have a negligible effect on the Bill as a whole. Non-hazardous sludge from dredgers is not municipal waste; therefore, the exclusion of "small" would make little difference. In effect, all waterways could probably benefit from its exclusion. It would be better to retain the wording of the directive and, therefore, avoid any possibility of challenge.

Lord Dixon-Smith: My Lords, I hear what the Minister says with a certain amount of delight. This a departure from the purposes of the Bill, against which he has religiously fought since we first tried to introduce the issue in Grand Committee. However, I understand the background to the amendment. I think it is wrong, but, if it has to be done, so be it. For now, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 25 [Penalties under Chapter 1: general]:

Lord Whitty moved Amendments Nos. 64 and 65:


    Page 16, line 27, after "8(3)" insert "or (3A)"

3 Feb 2003 : Column 80


    Page 16, line 27, leave out "target" and insert "scheme"

On Question, amendments agreed to.

[Amendment No. 66 not moved.]

Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 67:


    After Clause 25, insert the following new clause—


"REGULATIONS UNDER CHAPTER 1: CONSULTATION
(1) This section applies to regulations under this Chapter, other than regulations under section 1, 2, 3 or 22.
(2) Before making regulations to which this section applies, an allocating authority shall (subject to subsection (4))—
(a) consult such bodies or persons appearing to it to be representative of the interests of waste disposal authorities in its area as it considers appropriate,
(b) consult such bodies or persons appearing to it to be representative of the interests of persons concerned in the operation of landfills in its area as it considers appropriate, and
(c) consult such bodies or persons appearing to it to be representative of any other affected persons as it considers appropriate.
(3) In subsection (2)(c) "affected person" means a person appearing to the allocating authority to be a person who will or may be affected by the regulations.
(4) The allocating authority need not consult as mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) of subsection (2) if it appears to the authority that the interests mentioned in that paragraph will not be affected by the regulations."

The noble Lord said: My Lords, again, this amendment is a fulfilment of a recommendation of the Select Committee on Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform. It would give effect to the committee's recommendation about consultation by inserting after Clause 25 a new clause dealing with consultation on regulations. It would place on us a statutory obligation to consult representatives of waste disposal authorities, landfill operators and others who may be affected under Chapter 1 of the Bill before we make any regulations.

In tabling the amendment, we have complied with the recommendation of the Select Committee. We have, therefore, fulfilled the obligation that the House would expect us to meet in reflecting the committee's comments in the Bill. I beg to move.

Lord Livsey of Talgarth moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 67, Amendment No. 68:


    Line 18, leave out subsection (4).

The noble Lord said: My Lords, this amendment would remove subsection (4) of Amendment No. 67, which states:


    "The allocating authority need not consult as mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) of subsection (2) if it appears to the authority that the interests mentioned in that paragraph will not be affected by the regulations".

That does not go along with what the Minister has just said. It would be possible to exclude certain elements under subsection (4). Earlier subsections of the proposed new clause provide that an allocating authority shall,


    "consult such bodies or persons . . . as it considers appropriate".

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If a body's interests will not be affected by the regulations, why are they still to be considered appropriate? We wish to probe to find out why subsection (4) is included. It appears to exclude certain aspects. We wish to see consultation across the board, but the subsection appears to deny us that. I beg to move.

Lord Whitty: My Lords, subsection (4) would merely remove the need to consult representatives of waste disposal authorities or landfill operators whose interests are not affected. For example, the regulations might deal solely with the provision of information from the waste disposal authority to the monitoring authority. In that case, the role of landfill operators is not affected, so it would be inappropriate to engage in an additional form of consultation on such regulations. That is why the exclusion is included in the clause.

Lord Livsey of Talgarth: My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. None the less, I feel that bodies such as operators should be informed about what is happening, even if not through consultation. Perhaps I am being pedantic. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment No. 68, as an amendment to Amendment No. 67, by leave, withdrawn.

On Question, Amendment No. 67 agreed to.

[Amendment No. 69 not moved.]

Clause 26 [Regulations under Chapter 1: procedural provisions]:

Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 70:


    Page 16, line 30, leave out from "instrument" to second "the" in line 38 and insert—


"that—
(a) contains regulations under this Chapter made by the Secretary of State, and
(b) is not subject to any requirement that a draft of the instrument be laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament,
shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.
( ) No affirmative-procedure regulations shall be made by the Secretary of State unless a draft of the statutory instrument containing the regulations (whether containing them alone or with other provisions) has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.
( ) A statutory instrument that—
(a) contains regulations under this Chapter made by the Scottish Ministers, and
(b) is not subject to any requirement that a draft of the instrument be laid before, and approved by a resolution of, the Scottish Parliament,
shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of the Scottish Parliament.
( ) No affirmative-procedure regulations shall be made by the Scottish Ministers unless a draft of the statutory instrument containing them (whether containing them alone or with other provisions) has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, the Scottish Parliament.
( ) A statutory rule that—
(a) contains regulations under this Chapter made by the Department of the Environment, and

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(b) is not subject to affirmative resolution within the meaning of section 41(4) of the 1954 Act,
shall be subject to negative resolution within the meaning of section 41(6) of that Act.
( ) A statutory rule that contains (whether alone or with other provisions) affirmative-procedure regulations made by the Department of the Environment shall be subject to affirmative resolution within the meaning of section 41(4) of the 1954 Act.
( ) In this section—
"affirmative-procedure regulations" means—
(a) regulations under section 1 or 2, and
(b) the first regulations to be made under each of sections 6, 7 and 10 by each of the Secretary of State, the Scottish Ministers and the Department of the Environment;
"the 1954 Act" means"

[Amendment No. 71, as an amendment to Amendment No. 70, not moved.]

On Question, amendment agreed to.


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