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Lord Whitty: The opposite is the case. Amendments Nos. 168MA and 168MB would remove the responsibility on the water suppliers. They are required to have equivalent responsibility for water quality. Amendment No. 168RA, which concerns disconnection and other enforcement powers, relates to the undertakers as they have the power of disconnection, not the water suppliers.
Baroness Byford: I wish that I did. I thank the Minister for his comments, which I shall certainly read in Hansard tomorrow. At this stage, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Amendment No. 168MB not moved.]
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Carter): Amendment No. 168R is in the wrong order on the Marshalled List. It should come before Amendment No. 168RA. I now call Amendments Nos. 168N, 168P, 168Q and 168R.
Lord Whitty moved Amendments Nos. 168N to 168R:
- Page 192, line 13, leave out "licensed water supplier which provides" and insert "water undertaker whose supply system is used for the purpose of a licensed water supplier making"
- Page 192, leave out lines 20 and 21.
- Page 192, line 22, leave out second "that" and insert "the"
- Page 192, line 32, leave out "that" and insert "the"
On Question, amendments agreed to.
[Amendment No. 168RA not moved.]
Lord Whitty moved Amendments Nos. 168S to 168U:
- Page 192, line 45, leave out "(1A)(a)" and insert "(1A)"
- Page 193, line 2, at end insert—
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Baroness Byford moved Amendment No. 168UA:
The noble Baroness said: In moving Amendment No. 168UA, I wish to speak also to Amendments Nos. 170 and 171B standing in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer.
All through the Bill at various stages we have tried to promote the conservation of water. As we said at the beginning of our discussions, we are concerned that there is an insufficient duty to promote it. We have talked about efficiency and saving water. One can use water efficiently but that does not necessarily mean that one conserves water in the way that we should like to see.
Conservation measures could be taken at the level of the individual householder who decides to use water in a different manner. One could argue that that constitutes efficiency of use but it would also conserve water. We have talked—and will talk later—about the whole question of having more reservoirs so that in times of drought one can draw on water that has been conserved. But at the moment there is nothing in the Bill that we consider adequately covers the matter.
I could go on at length but that would be unfair to the Committee. The words literally speak for themselves. We are asking that after Section 93A of the WIA there should be inserted new Section 93AA, which concerns a duty to promote the efficient use of water. I beg to move.
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer: I support Amendment No. 168UA in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, with a slight reservation that I shall mention in a moment. I shall also speak to our Amendments Nos. 170 and 171B. I believe that those amendments are necessary. I accept that my amendments are similar. Amendment No. 170 is a slightly narrower amendment because it lays the duty on Ministers, government departments and the National Assembly for Wales, but Amendment No. 171B extends that duty to all public bodies.
In his reply I expect that the Minister will say that water undertakers already have a duty to promote the efficient use of water. The fact is that at the moment that duty is almost invisible. Although sometimes they send out helpful leaflets, there is no active promotion. Including such a provision on the face of the Bill requiring water undertakers to be more active would be helpful. Where water is metered, undertakers are in a dilemma as the use of greater volumes of water provides undertakers with more money. To require them to encourage their customers to be efficient adds to the dilemma.
My reservation on Amendment No. 168UA refers to subsection (3) which states that,
On Amendments Nos. 170 and 171B, I have in mind the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and planning authorities. I believe that in those areas we could see real efforts take place on the conservation of water. At the moment building regulations and planning requirements are totally feeble in relation to requiring water conservation. We still see industrial buildings constructed with enormous roof spans. For all the play that the Government made of the construction of the Dome being able to recycle water, we simply have not seen that translated into everyday use around Britain, except in a few exciting examples.
With regard to domestic house building, there is a vast area of potential for grey water recycling, for capturing water running off roofs, which would also release storm drains. None of that has been addressed. To address the issue in guidance is not sufficient; it needs to be addressed in a statutory way, otherwise the urgency required is lacking.
Lord Borrie: I understand why these amendments have been grouped together: they are all concerned
Although I agree with the Liberal Democrat amendments, I thought that the noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer, understated the water companies' attitude to conservation. Companies with which I have been concerned in recent years have done not just a little, but a great deal in terms of promotion and providing information to customers on numerous matters directly concerned with water conservation. Such information has included the efficient use of water, the conservation use of water sprinklers and the like on gardens in the hot summers that occasionally we have in this country and matters concerned with the huge amount of water that is wasted in a relatively short space of time from one dripping tap. I can think of numerous examples of promoting the efficient use of water by customers and encouraging conservation.
I do not like Amendment No. 168UA, partly because of the reason to which the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, alluded; namely, imposing a duty on water undertakers under subsection (1), and then saying in subsection (3),
"( ) Section 78 (local authority's functions in relation to undertaker's supplies) is amended as follows.
( ) In subsection (1)(a), after "undertaker" there is inserted ", or by a licensed water supplier using that undertaker's supply system,".
( ) After subsection (2), there is inserted— "(3) In subsection (1)(a) above, the reference to the water undertaker's supply system shall be construed in accordance with section 17B(5) above.""
Page 193, line 2, at end insert—
"( ) Section 86 (enforcement of water quality) is amended as follows.
( ) In subsection (1)(b), for "by a water undertaker" there is substituted "using a water undertaker's supply system".
( ) In subsection (2)(a)(i), for the words from "by" to "above" there is substituted "or a licensed water supplier by or under any of sections 68, 69 or 79 above or imposed on a relevant person (as defined in subsection (1A) of section 70 above) by or under that section".
( ) In subsection (3), after "undertaker" there is inserted ", licensed water supplier or other relevant person (as defined in section 70(1A) above)".
( ) In subsection (4), for paragraph (c) there is substituted— "(c) at any reasonable time require—
(i) any water undertaker or licensed water supplier to supply him with copies of, or extracts from, the contents of any records kept for the purpose of complying with any duty or other requirement imposed on that undertaker or supplier by or under any of sections 68, 69 or 79 above; or
(ii) any relevant person (as defined in subsection (1A) of section 70 above) to supply him with copies of, or extracts from, the contents of any records kept for the purpose of complying with any duty or other requirement imposed on that person by or under that section."
( ) In subsection (6), after "undertaker" there is inserted ", licensed water supplier or other relevant person"."
1.15 p.m.
Page 193, line 27, at end insert—
"93AA DUTY TO PROMOTE THE EFFICIENT USE OF WATER
(1) It shall be the duty of every water undertaker to promote the efficient use of water by its customers.
(2) The duty of a water undertaker under this section shall be enforceable under section 16 above—
(a) by the Secretary of State;
(b) with the consent of, or in accordance with, a general authorisation given by the Secretary of State, by the Director.
(3) Nothing in this Part shall have effect to authorise or require a water undertaker to impose any requirement on any of its customers or potential customers.""
"Nothing . . . shall have effect to authorise or require a water undertaker to impose any requirement".
On the whole I agree with the spirit, but I can see a point where technology, for example, could produce smart taps that would identify when leakages occur. At some time in the future a water undertaker could require its customers to fit such a device. I have a slight reservation about subsection (3) of the amendment.
"Nothing in this Part shall have effect to authorise"—
let alone require—
"to impose any requirement on any of its customers or potential customers".
A duty, enforceable by the Secretary of State or by the new authority is to be imposed on water undertakers and yet they cannot do more than they regularly do at the moment, as I have just described, in informing customers of how to save water. The amendment does not appear to me to be appropriate. Therefore, I am critical of Amendment No. 168UA.
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