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Lord Skelmersdale: Why is it necessary to specify at the beginning of subsection (2) that the provision includes Section 84(6)? Either it is for the purposes of this part or it is not.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: Because that provision is particularly relevant. That is a perfectly normal way of drafting.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Clause 122 [Part 2: Northern Ireland]:
Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendment No. 466:
- Page 64, line 43, at beginning insert "Subject to subsection (6),"
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendment No. 466A:
- Page 65, line 4, after "(5)" insert ", (Foreign travel orders: appeals)"
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendment No. 467:
- Page 65, line 17, leave out subsection (11).
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Clause 122, as amended, agreed to.
Clauses 123 and 124 agreed to.
Schedule 4 [Minor and consequential amendments]:
Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendment No. 468:
- Page 81, line 17, at end insert—
In the Offences against the Person Act 1861—
(a) in section 61, omit the words "either", "or with any animal" and "or an animal";
(b) in section 62, omit the words "or an animal".
In the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885, omit—
(a) in section 2, subsections (2) to (4), and
(b) section 11.
In section 1 of the Vagrancy Act 1898, omit subsections (1)(a), (2) and (3).
In section 7 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1912, omit subsections (4) and (5)."
The noble and learned Lord said: The government amendments in this group relate to several necessary consequential amendments to be included in Schedule 4 as a result of changes to the law on sexual offences in Northern Ireland brought about by this Bill and by the Criminal Justice (Northern Ireland) Order 2003. The amendments attempt to make the law in Northern Ireland more gender neutral.
I am happy to consider the changes sought in Amendment No. 469, along with those in Amendments Nos. 472 and 474. I will return to those issues on Report. I look around the Chamber and I do not see the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont of Whitley. I think that the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, may be about to say that she will pick up the baton on his behalf. I shall treat her as if she is the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont, for the moment. Does the noble Baroness care to withdraw the amendments?
Amendment No. 470 seeks to remove from the offence of indecent behaviour in the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1968 any element of sexual activity, as this offence is already gender neutral and used for a wide variety of unacceptable behaviour in public, including homosexual activity in public
Baroness Noakes: The noble Lord, Lord Beaumont of Whitley, does not have the staying power of the noble Lords still in the Chamber, and he asked me to speak briefly to the amendments to which my name is added. I am not sure that I quite understood what the Minister said, but he will return to it on Report.
The point that the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont of Whitley, was going to make was that the Bill is an opportunity to go beyond the tinkering in the government amendments. We should take this opportunity to remove some of the archaic elements of Northern Ireland law and introduce proper gender neutrality, especially as Northern Ireland does not have a legislature of its own at present, nor will it have in the foreseeable future. This Parliament must take responsibility for ensuring that it has a modern legal system as regards sexual offences. I look forward to reading what the noble and learned Lord said and to seeing what he will do on Report.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
2 a.m.
[Amendments Nos. 469 and 470 not moved.]
Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendment No. 471:
- Page 82, line 3, at end insert—
In section 21 of the Children and Young Persons Act (Northern Ireland) 1968, omit—
(a) in subsection (1), "or the prostitution of,", and
(b) in subsection (2), "or the prostitution of," and "or who has become a prostitute,"."
On Question, amendment agreed to.
[Amendment No. 472 not moved.]
Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendment No. 473:
Page 82, line 25, at end insert—
In the Homosexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 1982, omit—
(a) Articles 7(2), 8 and 10(2)(a), and
(b) paragraphs 3 and 4 of the Schedule."
On Question, amendment agreed to.
[Amendment No. 474 not moved.]
Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendments Nos. 475 to 477:
Page 83, line 9, at end insert "except so far as extending to Northern Ireland"
Page 84, line 47, at end insert—
In paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to the Criminal Justice (Children) (Northern Ireland) Order 1998—
(a) omit sub-paragraph (e);
(b) in sub-paragraph (j) for "Articles 7 and 8" substitute "Article 7".
In the Criminal Justice (Northern Ireland) Order 1998, omit Articles 6, 6A, 6B and 7."
Page 85, line 17, at end insert "except so far as extending to Scotland"
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Schedule 4, as amended, agreed to.
Schedule 5 [Repeals and revocation]:
Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendment No. 478:
The noble and learned Lord said: The amendment and those grouped with it are a series of repeals. In the main, the repeal in the government amendments in this group are consequential on the application of some of the new offences in the Bill to Northern Ireland. I beg to move.
Baroness Noakes: The Minister will be aware that grouped with the amendment are amendments standing in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont of Whitley, and myself. They cover a slightly different set of repeals. Perhaps the noble and learned Lord will say whether he intends to return to those on Report.
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: This is all part of the same point that the noble Baroness raised earlier; she was saying, "Do not just tinker. Look at the picture more broadly". We accept that certain inequities exist in Northern Ireland, but a fundamental reform of the law on sex offences in Northern Ireland does not form part of the Bill. That will happen after review of the law in that jurisdiction has taken place, and that will be underpinned by an appropriate public consultation in Northern Ireland. That review has already begun and a consultation paper will be published in future.
In the mean time, the Government are anxious to do what they can prior to the review to remove some of the inequalities that currently exist. We are therefore repealing the offence of gross indecency between males under the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885. That was proposed in an amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont of Whitley. Further, the
On Question, amendment agreed to.
[Amendment No. 479 not moved.]
Lord Falconer of Thoroton moved Amendment No. 480:
[Amendment No. 481 not moved.]
Page 86, line 7, at end insert—
"Offences Against the Person Act 1861 (c. 100)
In section 61, the words "either", "or with any animal" and "or an animal".
In section 62, the words "or an animal".
Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885 (c. 69)
Section 2(2) to (4).
Section 11.
Vagrancy Act 1898 (c. 39)
Section 1(1)(a), (2) and (3).
Criminal Law Amendment Act 1912 (c. 20)
Section 7(4) and (5)."
Page 86, line 25, at end insert—
On Question, amendment agreed to.
"Children and Young Persons Act (Northern Ireland) 1968 (c. 34 (N.I.))
In section 21, in subsection (1) the words "or the prostitution of," and in subsection (2) the words "or the prostitution of," and "or who has become a prostitute,"."
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