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Baroness Buscombe: My Lords, I rise to support the amendments, particularly those relating to copyright.
On Question, Motion agreed to.
68Schedule 6, page 140, line 14, leave out "to 133" and insert "and 132"
69Page 140, line 14, at end insert— " In section 133 (miscellaneous provision about new towns), in subsection (1), omit the following definitions—
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 68 and 69.
Moved, That the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 68 and 69.—(Lord McIntosh of Haringey.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
(a) "development corporation",
(b) "the 1964 Act".
70Schedule 7, page 150, line 25, at end insert—
| "Common Informers Act 1951 (c. 39) | In the Schedule— |
| the entry relating to section 11 of the Universities (Wine Licences) Act 1743, and the entry relating to the Sunday Observance Act 1780." |
| "in subsection (1), the words "; and accordingly as from that date—" and paragraphs (c) and (e), and" |
| "Licensing (Scotland) Act 1976 (c. 66) | In Schedule 7, paragraphs 9(a), (b), (d) and (f), 10, 11 and 12." |
| "In section 133(1), the definitions of "development corporation" and "the 1964 Act"." |
| "Section 3(1A)." |
| "Sections 17 and 18." |
| "paragraph 1(1), | |
| in paragraph 1(3), the words following paragraph (c), and | |
| paragraphs 2 to 5." |
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 70 to 80.
Moved, That the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 70 to 80.—(Lord McIntosh of Haringey.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
81Schedule 8, page 158, line 6, leave out ", and to comply with the requirements of sub-paragraph (7),"
82Page 160, line 13, after "20" insert ", (Mandatory condition in licences: exhibition of films)"
83Page 160, line 19, after "20" insert ", (Mandatory condition in licences: exhibition of films)"
84Page 164, line 25, leave out ", and to comply with the requirements of sub-paragraph (6),"
85Page 166, line 9, leave out "section 73 (prohibited conditions in club premises certificates) applies" and insert "sections (Certificate authorising supply of alcohol for consumption off the premises), (Mandatory condition in certificates: exhibition of films) and 73 apply"
86Page 166, line 14, leave out "section" and insert "sections (Certificate authorising supply of alcohol for consumption off the premises), (Mandatory condition in certificates: exhibition of films) and"
Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lord, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 81 to 86.
Moved, That the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 81 to 86.—(Lord McIntosh of Haringey.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
3.56 p.m.
Clause 1 [Meaning of "railway" and "railway property"]:
Lord Faulkner of Worcester moved Amendment No. 1:
- Page 1, leave out lines 6 and 7 and insert—
The noble Lord said: My Lords, I apologise for starting what must appear to be a technical and complicated amendment. However, it is important because it deals with the definition of a tramway—which is contained in Clause 1.
As the Explanatory Notes to the Bill makes clear, for the purposes of Part 1, the definitions of both "railway" and "tramway" adopt those contained in Section 67 of the Transport and Works Act 1992. Unfortunately, the definition in that Act is flawed, and has remained flawed since it went through Parliament in a hurry at the end of the Parliament when the election was called. The flaws were exposed in a working party established by the Chartered Institute of Transport. The Health and Safety Executive was likewise unhappy with the definition and has put forward its own alternative.
What is the problem with the present definition of "tramway"? As I have explained, Section 67 of the Transport and Works Act defines both "railway" and "tramway". It does so in a way which stipulates that if a rail transport system is not a tramway, then it must be a railway. So the definition of a tramway also has implications for the definition of railway. The definition of "tramway" in the 1992 Act is as follows:
Your Lordships should note that this definition contains the phrase,
If the decision is not taken to correct the definition in the current Bill, the present flawed definition will become even more deeply embedded in legislation, leading to ever-increasing problems. The Bill gives some examples. Graphic illustrations can be found in Clauses 14(2) and 76(2), which provide that the application to tramways of Parts 1 and 3—they respectively deal with the setting-up of the rail accident investigation branch and reconstituting the British Transport Police—are to be disregarded in relation to Scotland. There is therefore the possibility that the territorial application of the Bill in respect of railways and tramways may hover back and forth between England and Scotland. That is surely a unique and unacceptable state of affairs.
When the Bill was debated in another place, the Minister there suggested that the issue did not arise, as in Scotland there are no tramways. However, well-developed proposals are afoot for tramways in both Edinburgh and Glasgow, so the issue is a real one.
It is for those reasons that the Confederation of Passenger Transport, with the support of the Passenger Transport Executive Group and Her Majesty's Railway Inspectorate, has drawn up the revised definition that I have tabled. That definition would take account of two essential features that every tramway must possess: elements of street running and of line-of-sight operation. That latter characteristic was emphasised in Committee by the noble Earl, Lord Mar and Kellie. But the important change would be that the definition would no longer depend for its application on the proportion of street running involved, so overcoming the problems which I have outlined associated with the current definition.
The definition of "railway" in my amendment offers no change from the definition in the Transport and Works Act. It has been incorporated here simply because the removal of the existing wording would otherwise leave the Bill with no definition of a railway. A definition of "street" has been introduced simply because that term is integral to the concept of tramway as defined in the amendment. I beg to move.
Viscount Astor: My Lords, my Amendment No. 3 is grouped with the amendment. Noble Lords owe a debt of gratitude to the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, for tabling the amendment, because it certainly clears up some of the difficulties that we discussed at an earlier stage. My particular concern relating to tramways was about the rail accident investigation branch. I asked the Minister at a previous stage whether it would investigate tramways, because under the Bill as it stands it seemed to me that that would not be the case. He said that if there were no rail implications the inspector would not do so, and that if the tram were running on the road, as it were, it might be a matter for the police.
That response seemed somewhat unacceptable, as a tram runs on the road for most of the time—that is the definition of it; it also runs on rails. If it did not, it would be a powered bus. For a short part of a journey, a tram might run through areas where cars do not go, but that is not so for 99 per cent of the time. It seems important that the RAIB should be able to investigate any incident or accident.
The Minister was kind enough to write to me and say that, under Clause 7(1)(b), the RAIB can,
The Government could help me in one way; namely, if there were a system of automatic notification to the RAIB in the event of an incident or accident. In those circumstances, the RAIB would at least be aware of the facts and it could decide whether it was an appropriate matter for the branch or the police to investigate. What worries me is the thought of an accident involving a tram—perhaps if it hit a car or a bicycle—where a policeman comes along, scratching his head and wondering whether it is for him, or the RAIB, to investigate.
There needs to be some clear mechanism, because, as I have said before, there are a number of overlapping bodies in the Bill. There are also areas where something might slip between the two organisations. That is what I am anxious to avoid. I hope that the Minister can help me. I certainly support the principle of the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner of Worcester.
""railway" means a system of transport employing parallel rails which—
(a) provide support and guidance of vehicles carried on flanged wheels, and
(b) form a track which either is of a gauge of at least 350 millimetres or crosses a carriageway (whether or not on the same level),
but does not include a tramway;
"street" means any, or any combination, of the following—
(a) a highway within the meaning of section 328 of the Highways Act 1980 (c. 66) (interpretation),
(b) a bridleway, carriageway, cycle track, footpath or footway as respectively defined in section 329(1) of that Act (further provisions as to interpretation),
(c) land on the verge of a carriageway or between two carriageways,
(d) land laid out as a way whether it is for the time being formed as a way or not, and
(e) any other place to which the public has access (including access only on making payment);
"tramway" means a system of transport used wholly or mainly for the carriage of passengers employing rails which provide support and guidance for vehicles carried on flanged wheels and in respect of which—
(a) the rails are laid wholly or partly along a street, and
(b) over the whole or part of the system the permitted speed of vehicles operating on it is limited to that which enables the driver of any such vehicle to stop it within the distance he can see to be clear ahead;"
"'tramway' means a system of transport used wholly or mainly for the carriage of passengers and employing parallel rails which . . . provide support and guidance for vehicles carried on flanged wheels, and . . . are laid wholly or mainly along a street or in any other place to which the public has access only on making a payment".
"wholly or mainly along a street".
Not only does this allow vehicles of the same type, and operated in the same manner, to be classed as either a railway vehicle or a tramway vehicle, depending on the proportion of street-running that a particular system may possess, it can also mean that a system which at one stage may fall within the definition of tramway may later, if extended, fall within the definition of railway, or vice versa, according to whether the extended system changes the balance of the proportion of street running. As railways and tramways have different legal regimes, the regime governing a particular system may therefore change overnight, perhaps with the possibility of further fluctuations at a later date. This is surely bizarre and needs to be corrected.
4 p.m.
"decide on a case by case basis whether or not to investigate any accident, serious or non-serious, or incident on a tramway"—
he then added:
"The police and the RAIB will work closely to ensure that the appropriate body investigates".
We all know that sometimes government bodies work closely together, and sometimes they tend to work rather far apart. My concern is that there should be adequate provision for ensuring that there is always an investigation and a mechanism for deciding who should make that decision. That is why I tabled my amendment.
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