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The Lord Bishop of Chester: Perhaps I may briefly intervene to say that on several occasions the Minister

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referred to this being a balancing judgment between different opinions and liberties. Several times she has referred to quite emotive cases such as the Yorkshire Ripper, and so forth.

I have no objection to powers being given to allow samples to be taken when necessary. However, if someone is not willing to give a sample—a mouth swab is not entirely non-intimate; there is an intimacy in giving that—the case for ensuring that a police inspector or person of similar rank has to authorise it may be part of the balancing exercise. While agreeing with the force of the Minister's comments, I would urge her at least to consider introducing that sort of balancing exercise into the procedure.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: Perhaps I may say to the right reverend Prelate that in relation to the detail we shall have to have a debate and a discussion. I indicated at Second Reading and do so again today that the Government will continue to listen to all contributions made on the Bill and will reflect upon them. Of course, I cannot say to the right reverend Prelate that we will do a volte-face and change our minds on everything in relation to the Bill. However, I certainly assure him that we shall not stop listening.

10.42 p.m.

On Question, Whether Clause 8 shall stand part of the Bill?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 71; Not-Contents, 23.

Division No. 4


Acton, L.
Amos, B.
Andrews, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Brennan, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chandos, V.
Chester, Bp.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colville of Culross, V.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hardy of Wath, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Jones, L.
Judd, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mitchell, L.
Pendry, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Simon, V.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thornton, B.
Turnberg, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L. (Lord President of the Council)
Woolmer of Leeds, L.


Anelay of St Johns, B.
Attlee, E.
Barker, B.
Blatch, B.
Bridgeman, V. [Teller]
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Chan, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Elton, L.
Geddes, L.
Greaves, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Maddock, B.
Montrose, D.
Northbrook, L.
Peel, E.
Renton, L.
Russell, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Walmsley, B.

Resolved in the affirmative, and Clause 8 agreed to accordingly.

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10.53 p.m.

Lord Bassam of Brighton: I beg to move that the House do now resume.

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

House resumed.

        House adjourned at seven minutes before eleven o'clock.

30 Jun 2003 : Column 717

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