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Division No. 2


Addington, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Bradshaw, L.
Bridgeman, V. [Teller]
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chorley, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Fearn, L.
Feldman, L.
Fookes, B.
Fowler, L.
Freeman, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L. [Teller]
Goschen, V.
Gray of Contin, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Hayhoe, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Jacobs, L.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Kingsland, L.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
O'Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Razzall, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roper, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Taverne, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Wigoder, L.
Wilcox, B.


Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President)
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Cameron of Lochbroom, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fitt, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gregson, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Guildford, Bp.
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jones, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
Palmer, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Paul, L.
Pendry, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rooker, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Simon, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tomlinson, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.

Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.

27 Oct 2003 : Column 50

5.33 p.m.

Clause 22 [Person charged with offence in United Kingdom]:

[Amendment No. 75 not moved.]

Clause 23 [Person serving sentence in United Kingdom]:

[Amendment No. 76 not moved.]

Clause 24 [Extradition request]:

[Amendment No. 77 not moved.]

Clause 25 [Physical or mental condition]:

[Amendment No. 78 not moved.]

Clause 26 [Appeal against extradition order]:

[Amendment No. 79 not moved.]

Clause 27 [Court's powers on appeal under section 26]:

[Amendment No. 80 not moved.]

Clause 28 [Appeal against discharge at extradition hearing]:

[Amendment No. 81 not moved.]

Clause 29 [Court's powers on appeal under section 28]:

[Amendment No. 82 not moved.]

Clause 30 [Detention pending conclusion of appeal under section 28]:

[Amendment No. 83 not moved.]

Clause 31 [Appeal to High Court: time limit for start of hearing]:

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 84:

    Page 14, line 12, after "period" insert "(the relevant period)"

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I hope that I shall not detain the House too long in moving Amendment No. 84 and speaking to Amendments Nos. 85 to 87. They should not cause any great difficulty.

As the Bill is drafted, the main extradition hearing must begin within a fixed period of the date of arrest, but this can be extended where circumstances deem it appropriate. The appeal hearing too must begin within a set period after arrest, but there is no facility to extend the period. Clearly these arrangements could cause problems if the start of the extradition hearing has been postponed. The amendments remedy that potential difficulty by allowing the start of the appeal hearing to be put back.

I wish to draw attention to one further point. Noble Lords will recall that we earlier discussed what test should be applied by the judge when deciding to postpone the extradition hearing. I indicated that the

27 Oct 2003 : Column 51

Government were happy to go along an "interests of justice" test, and we shall bring forward amendments to that purpose. Noble Lords will note that we have already adopted that formulation in these amendments, as I telegraphed earlier.

I trust that the amendments will find the agreement of the House. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendments Nos. 85 to 87:

    Page 14, line 14, after first "the" insert "relevant"

    Page 14, line 19, after fourth "the" insert "relevant"

    Page 14, line 19, at end insert—

"(3A) The High Court may extend the relevant period if it believes it to be in the interests of justice to do so; and this subsection may apply more than once.
(3B) The power in subsection (3A) may be exercised even after the end of the relevant period."

On Question, amendments agreed to.

[Amendment No. 88 not moved.]

Clause 32 [Appeal to House of Lords]:

[Amendment No. 89 not moved.]

Clause 33 [Powers of House of Lords on appeal under section 32]:

[Amendment No. 90 not moved.]

Clause 34 [Appeals: general]:

[Amendment No. 91 not moved.]

Clause 35 [Extradition where no appeal]:

[Amendment No. 92 not moved.]

Clause 36 [Extradition following appeal]:

[Amendment No. 93 not moved.]

Clause 37 [Undertaking in relation to person serving sentence in United Kingdom]:

Lord Bassam of Brighton moved Amendment No. 94:

    Page 18, leave out lines 34 and 35 and insert—

"(6) Subsections (7) and (8) apply if the judge makes an order for extradition subject to a condition under subsection (3).
(7) If the judge does not receive the undertaking before the end of the period of 21 days starting with the day on which he makes the order and the person applies to the appropriate judge to be discharged, the judge must order his discharge.
(8) If the judge receives the undertaking before the end of that period—"

The noble Lord said: My Lords, in moving Amendment No. 94, I shall speak at the same time to Amendment No. 247. Again, I hope that these relatively simple amendments will find the agreement of noble Lords. The Bill allows us for the first time to extradite serving UK prisoners on a temporary basis to stand trial abroad.

I am sure that noble Lords will see the benefits of this. Let us imagine that someone is serving a very long sentence in the United Kingdom—perhaps even a life sentence—but is also accused of a very serious offence abroad. As things currently stand, we cannot extradite the person to stand trial until they have completed

27 Oct 2003 : Column 52

their United Kingdom sentence, which could be many years later. By that time, witnesses to the foreign crime may have died or their memories faded, while the victims of the crime will be denied swift justice.

I am sure that noble Lords will agree that a provision allowing for the temporary transfer of prisoners to stand trial is a welcome step forward. However, in all probability we shall be dealing with serious and potentially dangerous criminals here. To put it mildly, it would be most unfortunate if we were to transfer a prisoner abroad to stand trial and he or she were to be given bail and promptly disappear.

Accordingly, the clauses in the Bill dealing with temporary transfer allow for extradition to be made conditional on an appropriate undertaking being received. Such an undertaking would include an assurance that the person will be kept in custody while abroad and that they will be returned to the United Kingdom at the completion of the foreign trial.

All that is so far, so good, but when we looked at the Bill again over the summer, we realised that it contained nothing about what should happen if no undertaking was received. I hasten to add that we do not think there will be any difficulty in securing the necessary undertaking, but nevertheless we need to cater for the situation where it is not provided.

That is what these amendments seek to achieve. They provide that if no undertaking has been received within 21 days, the person can apply to the judge or the High Court for discharge under the extradition request. Such an application must always be approved. Obviously the potentially offending person would continue to serve their United Kingdom sentence, but they would not be liable for extradition.

I hope that I have been able to explain why these amendments are sensible and necessary, and I invite noble Lords to agree to them. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendment No. 95 not moved.]

Clause 38 [Extradition following referral for competing claim]:

[Amendment No. 96 not moved.]

Clause 39 [Position where asylum claimed]:

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