---

161CC Lord Clement-Jones rose to move, as an amendment to the Motion that the House do not insist on its Amendment No. 161 and do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 161A to 161BB to the words so restored to the Bill, leave out from "House" to end and insert "do insist on its Amendment No. 161".

Moved, as an amendment to the Motion that the House do not insist on its Amendment No. 161 and do agree with the Commons in their Amendments Nos. 161A to 161BB to the words so restored to the Bill, leave out from "House" to end and insert "do insist on its Amendment No. 161".

10.46 p.m.

On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 161CC) shall be agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 169; Not-Contents, 100.

Division No. 6

CONTENTS
Addington, L.
Alderdice, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Arran, E.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Barker, B. [Teller]
Bell, L.
Biffen, L.
Blatch, B.
Bowness, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chester, Bp.
Clement-Jones, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dundee, E.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elton, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Ferrers, E.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fowler, L.
Freeman, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greaves, L.
Greenway, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Hereford, Bp.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Home, E.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Jacobs, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkham, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Liverpool, Bp.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Methuen, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parkinson, L.
Peel, E.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Plumb, L.
Prior, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roper, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell, E.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sharman, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strange, B.
Swinfen, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Ullswater, V.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Worcester, Bp.

NOT-CONTENTS
Acton, L.
Alli, L.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Bragg, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chandos, V.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crawley, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B. [Teller]
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greengross, B.
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jones, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan of Huyton, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Pendry, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Radice, L.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rooker, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sewel, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Turnberg, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.

Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.

19 Nov 2003 : Column 2034

Motion, as amended, agreed to.

10.57 p.m.

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do adjourn during pleasure until 11.15 p.m. to receive the Commons message on the Criminal Justice Bill. A Business Statement will then be made.

Moved, That the House do adjourn during pleasure until 11.15 p.m.—(Lord Davies of Oldham.)

Lord Cope of Berkeley: My Lords, it is wise that the House should rise until 11.15 in order to receive the

19 Nov 2003 : Column 2035

message from the Commons on the Criminal Justice Bill. At that time it would be wise for the House to give time to reflect on the amendments that have been made to the Criminal Justice Bill and are in dispute between the two Houses. I shall therefore seek at 11.15 to move the adjournment of the House for today, so that we might resume discussion of the Criminal Justice Bill and any other outstanding business on the morrow.

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, we are making considerable progress on the Criminal Justice Bill. We intend to make progress on the Health and Social Care (Community Health and Standards) Bill too. It would be unprecedented for the House to adjourn at this stage when the other place is waiting upon our deliberations. Accordingly, I value very greatly the offer made by the Opposition Chief Whip that we should enter into discussions during the adjournment.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

[The Sitting was suspended from 10.59 to 11.15 p.m.]

Adjournment

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, it is with some regret that I report to the House that the Commons message is slightly delayed. Accordingly, I beg to move that the House do adjourn during pleasure until 11.45 p.m. to receive the Commons message on the Criminal Justice Bill.

Moved, That the House do adjourn until 11.45 p.m.—(Lord Davies of Oldham.)

Lord Cope of Berkeley rose to move, as an amendment to the Motion, leave out from "House" to end and insert, "do now adjourn".

The noble Lord said: My Lords, if we wait for that message until 11.45 p.m. it means that we shall not be able to start discussion of the Criminal Justice Bill until one o'clock or, probably, later. By the time that we have completed discussion of it and it has gone back it will obviously be three o'clock—or something like that—in the morning. That is particularly late—especially by the standards of the House of Commons these days. We should of course think about the wellbeing of our colleagues at the other end of the Corridor, as well as our own.

More seriously, as far as I can detect, the various parties seem to have moved close to one another on the Bill on the various outstanding issues. We should, as a House, attempt to facilitate the ability of the Government, Opposition and other parties to come to an agreement about the future and settle it on a Bill about which there has been much controversy.

I therefore think that it is much better if we adjourn the House today at this point and resume our discussion in the morning. The message is now due between now and 11.45, but it can perfectly well be received if the House is not sitting—it does not require the House to be sitting for the Clerks to do their

19 Nov 2003 : Column 2036

necessary work on it—so that when we return tomorrow morning at eleven o'clock for Questions, we could then proceed to discuss it in a proper manner.

Meanwhile, the parties will have had a better opportunity to discuss and reach agreement on the outstanding issues. If not, they could, in my view, be settled quickly by votes tomorrow and the Bill would proceed, or not, by virtue of the decisions of both Houses. So I think that it is better if the House adjourns until tomorrow—in the interests of the Commons, good government and arriving at sensible legislation; which we all want. I am not sure whether I need to move an amendment that we should adjourn now for the evening, as opposed to adjourning until 11.45 p.m.

Moved, as an amendment to the Motion, leave out from "House" to end and insert, "do now adjourn".—(Lord Cope of Berkeley.)

---