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Baroness Wilcox: My Lords, I declare an interest. I chaired the Science and Technology Select Committee on aircraft travel and health, which pointed up the worries that people have about deep vein thrombosis. Is the Minister as disappointed as I am that the Department for Transport did not fund an effective research programme conducted by British scientists over which we could have had some control? Now that we have decided to hand over the job to the World Health Organisation—I understand that we have already given £400,000 and by the time the research is finished in early 2005 we shall have given over £1 million—can the Minister reassure me that we shall have a list of how that money has been spent and that it will be put in the public domain?
Baroness Andrews: Yes, my Lords. Following an excellent report, the noble Baroness is relentless in her pursuit of the Government. I am not disappointed in what we have decided to do nor in the way in which it is being carried out. Given the international nature of the problem—she will understand this better than many—and the high cost associated with epidemiological research, it was considered better to meet our research needs in an international context. Negotiations with the WHO took a long time. The matters are complex and we had to ensure that optimum research, with a proper spread and with the best research team, was carried out. That research, which began at the beginning of 2003 and which is making very good progress, will report next year. Our own research on the public perception of DVT
has just been finished and it will be published early next year. It has some very interesting conclusions. We shall certainly ensure that there is a full account of how the research funding was spent.
Lord Clinton-Davis: My Lords, perhaps my noble friend will allow me to declare an interest as president of BALPA, the British Air Line Pilots Association. Is it not completely inadequate that in the main airlines announce that there is a threat of deep vein thrombosis at the beginning of long-haul flights? Is it not essential, particularly on longer long-haul flights, that that warning should be repeated not once, not twice but three times at the very least?
Baroness Andrews: My Lords, my noble friend makes a very important point. One outcome of the Select Committee's report was to set up the Aviation Health Working Group. This regularly brings together all the people involved in these matters including the airlines. Certainly advice and information has improved. I shall ensure that my noble friend's comments and observations are drawn to the attention of airlines.
Lord Campbell of Croy: My Lords, will the Government also inform the public about the successful medical research which has led to precautions and remedies, including warfarin previously used only for rat poison? I declare an interest as it has been prescribed for me to take daily for the past 10 years for a thrombosis in one of my legs. I should add that this was not caused by flying, but by an enemy bullet passing through my middle.
Baroness Andrews: My Lords, it is rather difficult to follow that. There has been a great deal of research by the WHO on the potential link, which is definitely not proven, between DVT and air flight. We hope that in the second stage of research we shall look more closely at some of these different interventions. The advice we give to passengers via the Department of Health is essentially about exercise; leg exercises and short walks—I suppose they could hardly be long walks—while in aircraft. The noble Lord's point is the subject for further research.
Lord Graham of Edmonton: My Lords, one of the excellent things that came out of the committee chaired by the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, was that there are a range of matters within the gift of every individual traveller. Preparation can be undertaken, provided the advice is known. One matter that emerged was the crucial part that doctors' surgeries can play in ensuring that simple exercises and simple remedies are made available. What is being done to alert people to the wide network of advice that can be given to potential travellers through doctors' surgeries?
Baroness Andrews: My Lords, it is very important that information gets to the general public. One thing that happened this very week is that the Aviation
Health Unit started work. The AHU's task will be to liaise between the professionals and give information on how people can protect themselves while travelling. That is one very important innovation. There is, as I have said, a range of advice on the web and available to doctors to provide basic information for people about to travel or, indeed, on returning from travel. Clearly, arising from our own research about public perception we now know that although people are aware of DVT they are a little confused about the best thing to do. Therefore, much more effort must go into communicating best advice for travellers.
Baroness Thomas of Walliswood: My Lords, has there been time since the provision of this information to travellers to ascertain whether it has had any perceptible effect on the rate of deep vein thrombosis or death from embolism? Secondly, there has been much discussion about air cabin layout, seat size and so on possibly affecting the incidence of this condition. Can the Minister tell us whether the joint health project, which the Government are in my view very sensibly carrying out with the World Health Organisation, will give us any answers on that question?
Baroness Andrews: My Lords, we do not collect figures. While we have figures for deaths from DVT, we do not know how many people die from DVT perhaps as a result of having taken a long-haul flight. So I cannot give much satisfaction there. In terms of seats, we know that the Joint Aviation Authority has commissioned research on the minimum distance between aircraft seat rows. It was found that passengers in business class, economy class and first class are equally at risk. The problem is not of seat size or of seat space, but of immobility. Although the UK is the only country with a minimum statutory requirement for seat spacing, that will not make any difference to people at risk.
"Big Conversation" Initiative
2.57 p.m.
Viscount Goschen asked Her Majesty's Government:
- Whether there is any government involvement in the "Big Conversation" initiative.
Baroness Amos: My Lords, the Labour Party is consulting its members and the wider community on the Government's progress and challenges ahead. This is a Labour Party initiative and not a government initiative.
Viscount Goschen: My Lords, in that case, why are Government Ministers praying in aid this initiative from the Dispatch Box? That happened on Monday in connection with the smoking issue. It gave it an aura of government respectability; whereas we know that this is in fact merely a cynical exercise designed to produce helpful answers. Does the noble Baroness agree with the description by the noble Lord, Lord Hattersley, of this exercise as a "confidence trick"?
Baroness Amos: My Lords, I do not think that it is a confidence trick, having done one of these exercises
myself on Monday. It was extraordinarily helpful because there was a great deal of support for what the Government are doing. It was very good to hear it.
The Lord Bishop of Portsmouth: My Lords, with the welcome presence in the Gallery of the right reverend the Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, perhaps a little bit of Scottish logic chopping is in order. Do the Government agree that conversations can be formal and informal? They can take place in many ways, but must be two-way. Do the Government also agree that in real terms this conversation has been taking place since the Labour Party assumed government in 1997? Do they further agree that perhaps what is required now is a little more listening and a little more precision?
Baroness Amos: My Lords, I entirely agree with the right reverend Prelate that actually there has been an ongoing conversation. That is precisely why the Labour Party won such major victories in 1997 and 2001. I also agree with the right reverend Prelate that it is important that the Government listen. One objective of the exercise is that the Labour Party, in consulting on the Government's programme, is keen to ensure that individuals and the community as a whole understand the basis for decision-making. But we also want to hear the public's views on what we are doing.
Lord McNally: My Lords, although I accept the Minister's assurance that that impressive document is all the Labour Party's own work, will she concede that it closely parallels an exercise recently published by the Cabinet Office, produced by civil servants? As for the exercise itself, I again pray in aid that reluctant Peer of creation, the noble Lord, Lord Hattersley, who said that the dialogue is a monologue in disguise. Considering that we have a Prime Minister who has no reverse gear, is not the noble Lord absolutely right?
Baroness Amos: My Lords, given that my noble friend's article has been cited at me twice, it is important that everyone reads the article to the end, because in fact he supported the exercise.
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