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Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for reminding him of his former life. We are clear about the boundaries that exist, and there is a clear delineation. The number of special advisers with executive powers is carefully guided. We have waited some time for there to be legislation on this and there has been a very valuable debate on these issues. We have given a commitment, which I repeated today, that we shall publish our own draft Bill in the current Session. The noble Lord may see that as slow progress, but it is progress that is right and we want to ensure that the legislation is right when it is brought forward.
Lord Sheldon: My Lords, will my noble friend just reply to this question about the Wicks Committee, which is a very important committee. It said that the legislation should set up what special advisers cannot do. There are some serious matters here, as there have been some claims that they have gone beyond what had been expected, way back to the Fulton Committee. That is a matter that needs to be dealt with with some clarity for the purposes of proper government.
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, the concerns that the noble Lord raised have existed for a number of years. In a sense that is recognised in the code of conduct, which is worth quoting. It states:
- "Special advisers must ensure that, while they may comment on advice being prepared for Ministers by officials, they do not suppress or supplant that advice".
Avian Flu
3 p.m.
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer asked Her Majesty's Government:
- Whether the avian flu virus, H5N1 sub-type, has been found in the wild bird population in Thailand.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Whitty): My Lords, the authorities in Thailand have confirmed the presence of H5N1 sub-type of avian influenza in poultry in Thailand, but there have been no reports that they have found this sub-type in wild birds.
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer: My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. Perhaps that makes the biosecurity measures needed slightly simpler. Will the Minister confirm that the importation into this
country of all poultry meat and eggs from all of the 10 countries now affected has been banned? What help is this country giving through the EU in response to the Food and Agriculture Organisation's call for international concerted help to address this serious and developing crisis? Will the Minister assure the House that as this is a developing crisis that is moving very fast, Statements will be made both here and in another place as appropriate and that the Government will not simply rely on Questions from these Benches to address the matter?
Lord Whitty: My Lords, there is a high level of biosecurity in this country's poultry industry but we have informed the industry itself, the Meat Hygiene Service and the port authorities that they must be extra vigilant now that this situation has occurred. As regards the banning of imports, of the affected countries in south-east Asia imports were allowed only from Thailand. Imports from the other affected countries in the area have been banned for some time. There is now an EU-wide ban on all fresh and frozen poultry meat from Thailand as well.
Lord Walton of Detchant: My Lords, does the Minister agree that evidence to date suggests that the transmission of this avian virus occurs only as a result of direct contact between the chickens or poultry involved and the individuals and that as yet there is no evidence of person-to-person transmission of the virus? Has any progress been made in producing a vaccine against this particular strain of the influenza virus?
Lord Whitty: My Lords, the noble Lord is correct in saying that there is no known human-to-human transmission and that all human cases of avian flu have arisen in people who have contact with poultry. The virus is normally transmitted both between birds and to humans via poultry droppings. That continues to be the case. Although medicines and vaccines exist that deal with some strains of avian flu, there is not yet a vaccine to counter the particular strain that we are discussing. Work has begun on it but it is unlikely to be available for several months at best. So at the moment there is no vaccine to counter the virus in humans.
Lord Livsey of Talgarth: My Lords, how does the Minister equate his reply with the report by Miriam O'Reilly on that excellent BBC programme, "Farming Today", earlier in the week in which she reported that she had seen on television wild birds falling out of the sky? Will any members of the veterinary department go out to the Far East to assist and to make an assessment of what is going on there with regard to the spread of avian flu?
Lord Whitty: My Lords, I did not say that no strain of avian flu existed in wild birds. There is a low level of avian flu in most bird populations. However, the strain that we are discussing has not been found in wild birds in Thailand. Clearly, if the disease were to spread much closer to this country and we were affected by
migratory patterns the danger from wild birds would be greater, as it was at the time of the Netherlands outbreak last year. As regards veterinary help, both the veterinary side and the public health side in the form of the Health Protection Agency have offered help to the WHO, should it want it. There is a meeting in Bangkok today of the countries involved with the WHO and the FAO. We shall see whether they put in requests for help.
Lord Soulsby of Swaffham Prior: My Lords, what measures are in place to increase surveillance for the virus in both wild birds and domestic stock in this country? In connection with that, will the Minister give us an assurance that the Government will respond positively to requests for surveillance from international organisations such as WHO and other countries to detect the virus wherever it might be?
Lord Whitty: My Lords, as I have already said, we shall respond positively to requests for help from the WHO, the FAO or, indeed, the EU. On general surveillance, clearly our request to the industry, the regulatory authorities and the port authorities to maintain a high level of vigilance should cover a possible outbreak in this country. Indeed, the very high level of surveillance prevented the Netherlands outbreak of less than 12 months ago spreading far beyond the Netherlands itself, although, of course, that necessitated a very substantial slaughter of poultry within the Netherlands.
Baroness Byford: My Lords, what discussions has the Minister had with the industry regarding what would happen if avian flu occurred in this country? We hope that it will not occur. What would be the policy of Her Majesty's Government with regard to infected flocks and any contiguous culls that might be necessary?
Lord Whitty: My Lords, we have established contingency plans in discussion with the industry. We have raised the level of vigilance, as we did at the time of the Netherlands outbreak. The industry is aware of, and involved in, those contingency plans. Should an outbreak of any strain of avian flu occur in this country, affected flocks would have to be slaughtered. As contamination occurs via droppings rather than by aerial transmission, normally the issue of contiguous cull would not arise although there may be situations in which a wider cull might need to take place. As this is a notifiable disease, there are compensation arrangements.
Sudan
3.7 p.m.
Lord Astor of Hever asked Her Majesty's Government:
- What implication the recent postponement of negotiations on Sudan will have for the peace process.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean): My Lords, the Sudan peace talks at Naivasha have not been postponed. They were adjourned on 26 January and are due to resume on 17 February. Consequently this has no adverse implications for the peace process: on the contrary we expect the parties to make good use of this break to identify ways to resolve the remaining issues and to prepare for discussion of detailed ceasefire and implementation arrangements.
Lord Astor of Hever: My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister for that response. The situation in Sudan is deteriorating rapidly with 18,000 refugees fleeing Darfur last week. What steps are being taken to verify reports of major human rights violations there and to protect inhabitants of that region?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, as your Lordships had the opportunity to discuss on 15 January, the situation in Darfur is peculiarly difficult. It is not a situation that pervades throughout the whole of Sudan. There are remaining problems which are being discussed in the peace talks, but Darfur is a very particular problem. Our Special Representative, Alan Goulty, has reported back to me on these issues. I understand that our representatives in Khartoum are speaking on an almost daily basis not only to the Sudan Government but also to the various factions in Darfur. We are doing our best to monitor what is going on. It is extremely difficult when the situation is as violent as it is. What is needed first of all is a ceasefire and then access by the NGOs.
In relation to human rights I can, however, tell your Lordships—I am very pleased to be able to say this—that we have now learnt that one of the situations which was giving rise to considerable difficulty; namely, the cross-amputation sentence on a 16 year-old boy who had been accused of armed robbery, has now been successfully appealed.
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