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Lord Filkin: My Lords, we explored this issue in Committee and in a meeting between Committee and Report stages. I should set down a number of
foundation principles. It is absolutely critical that there should clearly be a time when polling ceases. That time is, and it will be, 10 o'clock on the day itself. Both we and the Electoral Commission think that it would be quite wrong to have any confusion about that at all.As the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, indicated, we are minded to include in the advice that electoral officers should provide the advice that, if people in the polling areas are intending to post their vote rather than go to an SDP, they should post it by 12 o'clock on the day before. I think that that is sound and good advice because doing that will minimise the risk that one's vote does not arrive in time. In practice, the elector will have had not only the previous day but the previous two weeks to decide whether to vote by post and to post their ballot. The evidence from many places is that, for fairly obvious reasons, people tend to do it fairly early; if they are going to vote they tend to get on with it and do so. So the position is that most people will vote well before the final day. The advice will be that, if they are going to post their ballot, they should do so no later than 12 o'clock on the day before. If they wish to vote on the day itself, they can always go to a supported delivery point to vote in person.
That brings us to the final question about what the Royal Mail will seek to do. The Royal Mail has said that it will seek to scour the post boxes and sorting offices within the pilot regions between four o'clock and six o'clock on the day of posting. It seems perfectly sensible for the Royal Mail to do that—to try to maximise the likelihood that votes will count in cases where there has been a failure to collect a vote from a box if someone has voted the day before, or where someone has inadvertently and unadvisedly voted on the day itself. However, that will not change the clear advice that one should vote on the day before or, preferably, several weeks before. That is an opportunity that the postal voting system seeks to allow.
That is the Government's position and I hope that the House will agree that it is reasonable. We have seen an impressive commitment by the Royal Mail to the process of trying to ensure that we reduce the risk of not admitting votes that have been cast.
Lord Goodhart: My Lords, will the Minister say whether the election literature will refer to the fact that a sweep will be made between 4 o'clock and 6 o'clock on polling day? It is surely essential that potential voters should be told the position. If, for example, someone wakes up and realises on polling day that he has not put his ballot into the postbox, he should know of the option of posting it that morning rather than having to go to what may be a highly inconvenient supported delivery point, which he may decide not to do.
Lord Filkin: My Lords, I do not wish to be abrupt, but that information would cloud and confuse the issue in a way that would increase risk. The best advice is to vote early if not often. Clearly, the advice is to get the vote in at the earliest possible opportunity. One may want to leave it until the last minute, and vote the
day before, but why so? I do not wish to be pig headed about it, but while the Royal Mail will seek to reduce the risk of lost votes, one cannot be confident that it will always in all circumstances be able to sweep every post-box in such a limited time on the day. That may be difficult in some rural areas, for example, although it intends to try to do so.The policy guidance made it clear that we were talking about post-boxes within the regions themselves. If someone puts a vote in a postbox outside the region on the day before, it should be included and counted. But there is no possibility that the Post Office could scan all the post-boxes in London on the day of polling. Therefore, to put out advice that voters might get away with it if they vote on the day and if they make sure that they do so in a certain region would lead to a risky situation and confuse the public.
Baroness Hanham: My Lords, I wish to clarify my remark about votes following polling day. I understand from the policy paper—and welcome the fact—that the Electoral Commission will be asked to do a random selection test of the voting papers following the election to test for personation and fraud. Is that what page 15 of the policy paper means when it states that,
- "the Electoral Commission will look at the number of votes received after close of poll so it will be important for electoral administrators to keep records"?
Lord Norton of Louth: My Lords, if I may assist the Minister, I presume that that refers to Amendment No. 34.
Lord Filkin: My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord is right.
Lord Goodhart: My Lords, in the circumstances it is apparent that my Amendment No. 7 is based on the false assumption that the delivery of votes posted on Thursday would be handled by the normal postal delivery system and would therefore not arrive until Friday morning. As that assumption now appears to be false, I do not intend to press the amendment.
I accept that this does not apply to ballots posted outside the pilot regions, but it is deeply unsatisfactory that people will not be told that a ballot posted within a pilot region before last post—before 4 o'clock in the afternoon—on polling day is likely to be delivered through the post on the day, and therefore will be included in the count. We do not seem to be giving
voters full information that they can use to make up their minds about deferring posting their ballot paper until polling day.
Lord Filkin: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for allowing me to intervene. It is not about being unreasonable to the public, but about avoiding taking them into risk. The likelihood of a ballot failing to arrive on time would be substantially greater if we were to put out such advice. Therefore, we would be irresponsible to do so. At the same time, we need to try to ensure that if someone is misguided, mistaken or confused, his ballot will still count, if possible. There is nothing contradictory in those two positions.
Lord Goodhart: My Lords, I still think that that does not solve the problem. Of course it is right that people should be told that there is a risk and that their vote may not be delivered if they leave it until polling day. But someone may have been away from home; he may arrive back late on Wednesday evening, having missed the last collection on Wednesday, and would be prepared to take that risk. He may not be prepared to go to a supported delivery point.
Having said that, there is nothing further that I can do. However, I regard it as highly undesirable that people should not be given the whole picture, including the risk of non-delivery if they leave it until the last possible day. As I said, it is clear from the policy paper that the amendment is based on a false assumption, so I beg leave to withdraw it.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Earl Attlee moved Amendment No. 8:
- Page 2, line 14, at end insert—
The noble Earl said: In moving Amendment No. 8, I shall speak also to Amendment No. 32. Both amendments focus on ensuring that provisions are in place to allow disabled people to participate easily in an all-postal election.
First, we still think it imperative to have an assurance on the face of the Bill that the details of the pilot order will state that information on voting will be in simple form and easily accessible to those with disabilities. The pilot order should also make it clear that those with disabilities can exercise their vote independently and in secret.
Secondly, it is equally important that in Clause 4, which covers the report produced by the Electoral Commission, there is a specific duty on the commission to assess the extent to which the manner of elections facilitated voting for those with disabilities, having consulted such organisations or individuals representing disabled people as the commission considers appropriate.
There was much discussion on those issues in Committee, and I was encouraged by the Minister's commitment to ensure that all necessary provisions would be made to allow those with disabilities to vote in an all-postal ballot. It is clear that there has been extensive consultation between the Government, the Disability Rights Commission and the RNIB. Both organisations set out a detailed briefing specifying their minimum requirements for providing for those with disabilities.
They proposed that all electoral information must comply with RNIB's clear print guidelines. Information and instructions should be in a minimum of 14 point in plain English with clear information about access arrangements. Returning officers must be in a position to provide formats in large print, tape, Easy Read, Braille, disc and e-mail. The ballot paper must be compatible with the tactile voting device. Home visits or one-to-one assistance must be provided to disabled voters on request. Signature guides and other aids are to be provided to assist voters to sign the declaration of identity, and staffed delivery points must be accessible to disabled voters.
There are many detailed requirements, and I thank the Minister for his letter of 6 February giving some commitment to meet the majority of those specifications. I thought that it might, however, be of benefit if the Minister could let us know whether there has been any further progress in facilitating voting for those with disabilities. For instance, there are several provisions mentioned in the policy paper—notably on page 18—which it would be helpful to have on record.
We know that all-postal voting is an evolutionary process. It is designed to generate evidence and to test the waters to see if the method works. We therefore fully believe that our amendment, which specifies that the Electoral Commission must have regard to the accessibility of the election for those with disabilities, is vital in promoting best practice and gathering feedback from groups who represent disabled voters. I am sure that the Minister will assure us that this will go without saying. However, I prefer that it should be specified on the face of the Bill. I beg to move.
Lord Goodhart: My Lords, my noble friend Lord Rennard and I have added our names to Amendments Nos. 8 and 32 which we fully support.
We welcome the fact that the Government have gone some considerable way to meeting the requirements of the Disability Rights Commission and the RNIB. However, a number of outstanding questions remain. Certainly, the Disability Rights Commission considers that it is necessary to have clarity regarding the requirements for accessible information. It is imperative to get effective publicity arrangements in place.
I refer to a number of specific points. The Disability Rights Commission is very concerned about the minimum of one supported delivery point per local authority area. That is not good enough given the mobility and transport barriers for many disabled
The Government have said that election information will be made available in alternative formats which will definitely include tape and e-mail, and Braille on request. The Disability Rights Commission says that large print must also be available, that the expense of providing information in Braille on request is not great and should not be subject to an expense limit, and that clarification is needed on whether ballot papers will be available in anything other than large print. As I understand it, a number of unanswered questions still remain. I hope that the Minister will be able to deal with some of them, if not today at any rate before Third Reading.
"( ) The pilot order must make provision to ensure—
(a) that all information provided is in a simple form, easily accessible to the elderly and disabled, and
(b) that those with disabilities are able to exercise their vote independently and in secret."
6 p.m.
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