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Lord Lester of Herne Hill: My Lords, could the Minister tell the House how out of line we are with the rest of Europe? Apart from the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom, which European states that belong to the convention system give this lesser protection to children in the home?
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: My Lords, I will answer the noble Lord's question the other way around, because I am more clear about those countries that have decided to remove this. In the past 25 years, Austria, Croatia, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Latvia, Germany, Cyprus, Iceland, Denmark and Israel have banned the use of corporal punishment on children. I gather that Belgium added a new clause to the constitution confirming children's rights to moral, physical, psychological and sexual integrity. The latest information that I have concerns the last meeting, at which the UK Government were present in Strasbourg, and where there was a great deal of debate.
Again, I bring your Lordships' attention to the fact that we are not discussing this Government's belief that we should do anything other than protect children from abuse. Talking about what can happen to a child in a loving relationship and discipline in the home is different from discussing what is abuse of children.
The Earl of Listowel: My Lords, can the Minister say how the Government are promoting positive parenting and helping parents under stress set proper boundaries for their children? How are they are encouraging health visitors to get messages across? How are the Government involved in the Sure Start project?
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: My Lords, I am delighted to raise the issues that the noble Earl has mentioned. It is a critical part of the Sure Start programme to enable parents to get the support and advice that they need on issues of discipline, listening to their child and understanding children's behaviour. That forms part of it. I would be the first to say that we need to do more, but it is an integral part of what we want to achieve.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, if the Minister is in favour of listening to children, is she aware that the overwhelming majority of children are in favour of removing the defence of reasonable chastisement?
Baroness Ashton of Upholland: My Lords, as a mother, I was thinking of what my children would say on this subject. The noble Baroness made an important point about the need for government, and all of us, to listen to what children are saying. I go back to the point that I made earlier. I am not talking about children who are in any way abused. I am talking about recognising that in the home, in a loving family, there are different modes of discipline. We should be cautious and careful about the way in which we go forward on this issue.
Police Service of Northern Ireland: Chief Constable
2.58 p.m.
Lord Glentoran asked Her Majesty's Government:
- In the light of pressure from all parties for investigations of past crimes, whether the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland is adequately resourced to carry out the tasks with which he has been charged.
The Lord President of the Council (Baroness Amos): My Lords, the Government are committed to ensuring that the Chief Constable is resourced to deliver a professional and progressive police service. There are many competing demands for resources, and the issue of how they are deployed is an operational matter entirely for the Chief Constable, who must manage those resources and prioritise accordingly. The subject of the past is a difficult and sensitive matter for many people across the community of Northern Ireland. The Government welcome debate, because this is not a question that we can settle on our own. Any solution must be based on a broad consensus.
Lord Glentoran: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that response. Would she not agree with me that now is not the time for the phasing out of the full-time reserve, without which the Police Service of Northern Ireland would be unable adequately to counter the terrorist threat?
Furthermore, will she tell the House what sanctions Her Majesty's Government intend to take against Sinn Fein following the Chief Constable's confirmation that the Provisional IRA was involved in the recent beating and attempted abduction of Mr Tohill?
Baroness Amos: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, may be aware that the Chief Constable and the policing board announced in October 2002 a human resource strategy to meet the staffing needs of the police service over the next eight to 10 years. It was stated that from April 2005 there will be a phased run-down of the reserve during an 18-month period,
- "subject to no further deterioration of the security situation and the continued success of the recruitment campaign for the Police Service".
As regards the incident, the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, may be aware that we have asked the Independent Monitoring Commission to examine it in the context of the preparation of its first report on paramilitary activity.
Lord Smith of Clifton: My Lords, given the enormous backlog of unsolved murders, it is clearly a matter of both conciliation and prioritisation. What plans do the Government have for developing reconciliation and what advice and guidance are they offering the Chief Constable with regard to this matter? It is not merely an operational issue; it is also
one of much wider political consequence in Northern Ireland. I should have thought that the Government would offer guidance to him on this matter.
Baroness Amos: My Lords, as I said in my Answer, this is an issue of great sensitivity in Northern Ireland. The Chief Constable has undertaken to ensure that where the evidence is available, it will be looked at by the new team established for this very purpose.
On reconciliation, there have been calls from a number of quarters for a truth and reconciliation commission. At present, we are saying that debate on the subject is welcome. It is not an issue the Government can settle on their own; we need to address it in a way that commands widespread acceptance and co-operation.
Baroness Park of Monmouth: My Lords, does the Minister agree with me that when the Patten commission made its recommendations on the shape and size of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, it had in mind that it would be doing the normal job of a police force? It did not have in mind that it would be doing a series of Bloody Sunday inquiries too, with all the costs that that entails not only in people but in money. Surely, it must be accepted that the present staffing of the police is in no way commensurate with the work that will be required. This is a new situation.
Baroness Amos: My Lords, that is precisely why the Serious Crime Review Team was established from Monday, 16 February. The work in which it is presently involved includes formulating a response to all external inquiries relating to historical murder investigations. It is proposed that the review team carry out a review of any of those investigations where evidential opportunities have been identified. The noble Baroness is right that the burden on the Police Service of Northern Ireland of undertaking large-scale inquiries is such that the work of this team will be important in taking forward any matter on which it has evidence and has identified where further investigation should take place.
Lord Elton: My Lords, given the present security and political situation, does the Minister believe it appropriate to wait until May for a report on the Tohill incident?
Baroness Amos: My Lords, we have asked the Independent Monitoring Commission to bring forward its report from July to May precisely because we were concerned to have information on the matter as quickly as possible.
Lord Skelmersdale: My Lords, given that the situation has been getting worse for some time and that at the time of the Good Friday agreement some 70 per cent of murders by republicans and 50 per cent by loyalists were unsolved, why has it taken so long to set up this new unit?
Baroness Amos: My Lords, issues needed to be addressed in relation to the work that the unit would
do. That has now happened. As I said in answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Park, the review team was resourced from Monday, 16 February and its task has been set out clearly. I am happy to write to the noble Lord with further information on that.Human Rights Act 1998 (Making of Remedial Orders) Amendment Bill [HL]
3.5 p.m.
Lord Lester of Herne Hill: My Lords, I beg to introduce a Bill to amend Schedule 2 to the Human Rights Act 1998 in respect of the periods of time applying to the stages and making of a remedial order under Section 10 of that Act. I beg to move that this Bill be now read a first time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read a first time.—(Lord Lester of Herne Hill.)
On Question, Bill read a first time, and ordered to be printed.
European Parliamentary and Local Elections (Pilots) Bill
3.6 p.m.
Clause 2 [Pilot order]:
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