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Division No. 2

CONTENTS
Addington, L. [Teller]
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Arran, E.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Barker, B.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Blaker, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elles, B.
Elton, L.
Ezra, L.
Fearn, L.
Feldman, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fowler, L.
Freeman, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Gray of Contin, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Home, E.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
James of Holland Park, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Kingsland, L.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Liverpool, E.
Luke, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B. [Teller]
Mancroft, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Montrose, D.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Peel, E.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Plumb, L.
Quinton, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roper, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheppard of Didgemere, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Thatcher, B.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tope, L.
Trumpington, B.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walmsley, B.
Wigoder, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Wolfson, L.

NOT-CONTENTS
Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President of the Council)
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chan, L.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B. [Teller]
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Greengross, B.
Gregson, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jones, L.
Judd, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan, L.
Orme, L.
Ouseley, L.
Palmer, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Paul, L.
Pendry, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rooker, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Tenby, V.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Triesman, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Varley, L.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.

Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.

1 Mar 2004 : Column 476

5.15 p.m.

[Amendment No. 109 had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List.]

Baroness Hamwee moved Amendment No. 110:

Page 20, line 29, at beginning insert "Thereafter,"

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendment No. 110A not moved.]

[Amendment No. 111 had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List.]

[Amendment No. 112 not moved.]

Baroness Hanham moved Amendment No. 113:

Page 21, line 12, leave out paragraph (c).

The noble Baroness said: My Lords, Clause 38(l) states:

"A reference to the development plan in any enactment mentioned in subsection (7) must be construed in accordance with subsections (2) to (5)".

Subsection (7) goes on to list the relevant enactments which include,

"this Act . . . the planning Acts . . . the Land Compensation Act 1961 . . . the Highways Act 1980".

I moved a similar amendment during a previous stage of the Bill and I asked the Minister then what other Acts would be involved, because they are referred to. He kindly referred me back to those that I had already mentioned and have just repeated. In the interim have there been any further thoughts regarding what the other Acts were? For the benefit of some enlightenment, I beg to move.

1 Mar 2004 : Column 477

Lord Rooker: My Lords, I shall try to provide enlightenment. Clause 38 defines the development plan in terms of the new and simplified hierarchy of plans and documents created by the Bill. It applies the definition to existing legislation. Under Clause 38(1), if any of the Acts mentioned specifically in Clause 38(7)—for example, the Highways Act 1980—refer to the development plan, then the development plan means what it says in subsections (2) to (5) of Clause 38. The same applies if there is a reference to the development plan in,

"any other enactment relating to town and country planning".

The broad reference in Clause 38(7)(c) is mainly to ensure that future legislation relating to town and country planning will be caught by those requirements. If the Bill listed enactments individually, the list would become exclusive and could be added to only by changing primary legislation. Clause 38(7) ensures that the principal current enactments are listed in terms, all other legislation containing the relevant reference is caught and the development plan is defined in one statutory provision—Clause 38.

I shall state a few facts. Regarding whether this makes life difficult for lawyers, we do not wish to be unhelpful but, if one uses electronic search facilities, one can search the UK statutes database. Such a search shows that there are 2,025 references to "town and country planning" in over 200 enactments. Furthermore, there are 295 references to "development plan" in around 30 enactments. It may be that there is a reference to the development plan in an enactment falling within Clause 38(7)(c), where that enactment does not relate to town and country planning. If so, then the construction provided for in the Bill will not apply—but that is something to be determined on consideration of the relevant legislation.

I hope that I have given the noble Baroness the enlightenment for which she was asking.

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