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Planning and Compulsory Purchase Bill
3.42 p.m.
Clause 2 [Regional Spatial Strategy]:
Baroness Maddock moved Amendment No. 1:
- Page 1, line 11, at end insert—
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 1. I feel like I am playing ping-pong with my noble friend Baroness Hamwee, because I dealt with this in Committee, she dealt with it on Report, and we are back to it here on Third Reading. I hope that the Government will be persuaded to move today at our third time of asking.
This is a very simple amendment. It would ensure that the regional spatial strategy sets the overarching spatial framework for all other regional strategies
The Bill fails to do this. It would perpetuate an unhelpful tension between the narrow pursuit of economic growth by the regional development agencies—which often do not regard environmental consequences—and the wider spatial planning objectives such as urban renewal.
On Report, the Minister indicated that the Government were very supportive of the amendment. There was some discussion about whether we were setting a hierarchy. I do not think that we are. Not all strategies are spatial strategies, but we need a spatial strategy at the head. I would not interpret it in that way.
As we have heard many times during the debates on the Bill, the Government might agree with us but they do not think that it is the right place to put it, or they do not want to include it in the Bill. That is what the Government said last time.
I repeat, draft planning policy statement 11, which deals with regional planning, is not clear on this point. It needs to be made clear on the face of the Bill. If we are serious about people working together and the strategies feeding into each other at regional level, this is vitally important. I beg to move.
The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Thomas of Walliswood): My Lords, with the permission of the House, before I continue the process, I have to notify the House of a mistake in the figures announced for those voting Not-Content in Division No. 4. The correct figure is 104, not 103, but that of course does not affect the result.
The Minister of State, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister (Lord Rooker): My Lords, as the noble Baroness says, we have been round this course not once, but twice. I have no objection to doing it a third time, but I do not think we need to spend much time on it because there is not a great division between us.
We have covered this ground before, and on the basis of what I have said previously, I am clear that the amendment does not seek to create a hierarchy of regional strategies with the regional spatial strategy at the top. I agree that the regional spatial strategy should set the spatial framework for other regional strategies in the region, including the regional economic strategy. Draft planning policy statement 11 says that.
The document also makes it clear that this is an iterative relationship, with the regional spatial strategy reviews needing to take account of these other strategies. This is not an easy model to prescribe in legislation. The issue is whether amending the Bill is necessary and would help achieve what we are agreed
Baroness Maddock: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that clear and precise answer. There is obviously a difference of opinion between the Minister and ourselves—and a number of people outside the House. I hope that what the Minister says is right, and that this works out as we would all like it to.
I am conscious of the time—and the time that we have spent on this matter—and I hope that the Minister's statements will back up what is in planning policy statement 11 when it is eventually finalised. For the present, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 5 [Assistance from certain local authorities]:
Baroness Hamwee moved Amendment No. 2:
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I moved a similar, though not identical, amendment at Report, building on the government amendment that we had at that stage, setting out a role for the counties and unitary authorities in their dealings with the regional planning body.
At that time I proposed that the regional planning body should not proceed for a period of four months if it did not accept the advice given by any of those authorities. That period of four months was for the regional planning body and the authority to discuss the matter.
I have not been so prescriptive in this amendment. We propose simply that the two entities should discuss the matter before any examination in public. I did not regard the four months that I proposed before as being likely to lead to a delay on such a disastrous scale as has been suggested.
The noble Lord, Lord Bassam, said that the previous amendment was overly prescriptive. As it is late I shall not trade arguments about who has been the more prescriptive in their proposals over the past two or three months. He said that our proposal was onerous, unwieldy and bureaucratic and was concerned that I sought a requirement to publish and to respond in detail to all the responses and advice from the counties and unitary bodies.
I did not think then, and, now that I have thought further about the matter, I do not think now, that my amendment suggests an item-by-item listing or such an approach for each authority. It proposes that the regional planning body should be clear and say in terms on a given issue, "Some authorities thought this, but because of (set out the reason) we have decided thus". In other words, it would be a mechanism to aid the transparency of the whole process. Of course no one would expect that every authority in a region
I wish to pre-empt the suggestion that the Minister has made previously that, knowing that the material would go to the Secretary of State, I am again showing distrust of his right honourable friend: I reiterate the point that nobody knows whose right honourable friend will hold that position in the future. I have thought seriously about the Government's points and have sought to build on them. I hope that my amendment will be regarded as reasonable. I beg to move.
Lord Rooker: My Lords, on the noble Baroness's previous point, I promise not to say that. However, on later groups of amendments, she will see that we are amending the Bill so that the Secretary of State and everybody else must give reasons for virtually everything that they decide to do. I understand why the amendment is made but we do not think that it is necessary. It implies a much less open and collaborative approach to preparing a draft revision of the regional spatial strategy than is actually the case, and which would be supported by regulations and guidance.
Regional planning bodies in county councils and other authorities with strategic planning expertise will not only deal with each other through formal requests and responses, they share many of the same members. There will be ongoing informal discussion and opportunities to discuss advice given and what the regional planning body will do with it.
The final version of planning policy guidance 11 on regional planning will make clear that each regional planning body should be proactive about making information available in line with the Freedom of Information Act. The regional planning body is under an overriding duty to act reasonably in considering advice that it receives from county councils and other authorities with strategic planning expertise. Ultimately, if it fails to take proper account of that advice, it could find itself subject to legal challenge. But in practice the regional planning body and other authorities will discuss their differences. They will not take them through the courts every day of the week. That is the common-sense approach, which, the noble Baroness will know, will be the overwhelming thrust. We do not feel that we need to legislate for that.
Baroness Hamwee: My Lords, let me be the first to congratulate the Government on taking up the point to which the Minister has just referred. I am very glad that they have written in the requirement to give reasons. We shall come to that shortly.
For the record, I am unclear how our proposal could mean a less open regime. I hear what the Minister says about guidance; it is becoming like a record that is
I hear what the Minister says. We shall probably want to get on with business. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 6 [RSS: revision]:
"( ) The RSS will set the spatial framework for the strategies of the regional development agency in its region."
Page 2, line 39, at end insert—
"( ) The RPB shall publish its response to advice given in accordance with subsection (2), and in the case of advice from an authority relating to the preparation of a draft revision of the RSS which it does not accept, the RPB shall discuss the matter with the authority before a examination in public of the draft revision of the RSS is held."
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