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Lord Marlesford: My Lords, I really cannot allow my noble friend's total distortion of the purpose of the planning system to stand unchallenged. The planning system is intended to allow everyone to enjoy a countryside that is unspoiled. It is about the public good and about public access, and that dates right back to the 1920s. For my noble friend to say something like that is in accord neither with the founding fathers who gave us the means of protecting our countryside as it is today, nor, I would suggest, in the spirit of the Tory party to which I belong.
Lord Rooker: My Lords, at the risk of falling foul of the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, notwithstanding what Kate Barker said in her report about producing more homes, if we deliver on the growth areas of the south-east in the sustainable communities plan it will alter the amount of land used for urbanisation in this country by a little above 1 per cent, from about 12 to 13 per cent. That is the scale. We do not have to go to the barricades to defend the countryside. We have to be mindful and watchful, as the previous debate demonstrated. That is crucial and fundamental.
The Government are grateful for Kate Barker's analysis. I can give the commitment to the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, that we are considering it in a sympathetic way. There is no doubt that we want to be guided by the evidence. We are taking forward these issues in the way I have deployed during debate. I do not wish to curtail the debate. I am more than happy to come to the House to debate in a general way, without being tied to amendments and nuances of words, what underlies the sustainable communities plan published in February of last year and the two updated plans. The House has not had the opportunity to do so.
Housing supply and demand are firmly on the Government's agenda. On the four growth areas, we have designated half the growth over the next 15 years or so. It can then be managed so that it is not urban sprawl or despoliation of the countryside and we can ensure that the best use is made of the brownfield sites and buildings spread across the country, although unevenly. For historic reasons, there are more in some regions than others.
Some of the measures referred to by Kate Barker in her useful report last week form part of the Bill. I refer to the speeding up of the process. While the planning delivery grant is not part of the Bill, it is part of the operation seeking to put more resources into planning to improve its quality and other factors. We shall consult on how planning policy on housing should be revised to include guidance on the application of market information and signals into the system and a
presumption in favour of granting planning permissions which conform to local plans. In the future, those will be the development plan documents. We shall consult with stakeholders. The Government are not rushing forward without consulting and operating the proper processes.We take on board the reason why the noble Lord tabled the amendment. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, I hope that I have indicated that the countryside is not under threat in the way that some extremists using extravagant language would have people believe. Of course, I do not refer to the noble Lord. Notwithstanding that, I am more than happy to come to the House on a general debate on the issue because that would be helpful for the wider public debate.
Lord Lucas: My Lords, I hope that such a debate can be arranged. It should be enjoyable for the Minister. With a broad smile on his face, he can sit back and watch the noble Lord, Lord Marlesford, and I harass each other. I do not think my noble friend and I are that far apart. We share a great appreciation of the great joys of the countryside. I wish that a small part of the debate could be devoted to the cause of the 95 per cent of the people who do not live in the countryside and who do not want to live in little rabbit hutches which are increasing in price and decreasing in size at the rate they have been over the past 20 years.
I am encouraged by what my noble friend says and to know that the CPRE will be voluble in its defence of the countryside. The countryside will need such allies if we are going to make progress on the Barker review. I am also delighted by what the Minister said, and I hope that the matter will be in front of us soon. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
4.45 p.m.
Clause 18 [Statement of community involvement]:
Baroness Hamwee moved Amendment No. 11:
- Page 10, line 20, at end insert "and use of land"
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, on Report, I thanked the Minister for his letter to me explaining the difference between "development", "use" and "development and use". Development requires planning permission. As he explained, references to development alone refer to development control matters. I shall take this opportunity to correct what Hansard referred to as "development and control"; I am not surprised that those who do not live with such terms find difficulty with them. However, that may have added to the confusion, which I hope that we are on the way to sorting out. References to "development and use" extend to the continuing use of land without necessarily any change in that use.
Clause 18 deals with the statement of community involvement. That statement should recognise that, among the community, there may well be interests in the use of land within the authority's area without development. To pre-empt the Minister, who has
made clear his view of the nimby brigade—I wonder if that is one acronym that we can keep in—we can be concerned about use without development for altruistic reasons, and not only for selfish reasons. In any event, even if the motives are those which some of us might deplore, that does not mean to say that people who hold them should not be consulted.The Minister said that he would triple-check the position. As we are now at Third Reading, it might be the moment to say what the outcome of that triple-check is. I beg to move.
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, when the matter was debated on Report, my noble friend Lord Rooker indeed said that he would triple-check. Everyone knows that he is extremely diligent, and he did exactly that. My speaking note confirms that he would have reported to the House, were I not doing so, that the current wording was fully inclusive. Clause 18(2) mentions those who,
- "have an interest in matters relating to development".
The phrase "matters relating to development" is broad and captures not only those interested in promoting development, but those interested in preventing it. Both are covered—the provision is all-inclusive and does the job. The Bill as it stands ensures that people whose interest is in there being no development will fall very much within the ambit of a local authority's statement of community involvement; after all, they are part of the same community. I understand the noble Baroness's insistence on the point but, with that explanation, I hope that she will feel able to withdraw her very well intended amendment.
Baroness Hamwee: My Lords, I will not insist on it. I understand that explanation. A few years ago, there was a fashion in teenage lingo for saying, "I think so—not". The issue is really about development—not. It is helpful to have the explanation on record, and I am grateful to the Government for that. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 20 [Independent examination]:
Lord Rooker moved Amendment No. 12:
- Page 21, line 26, leave out "a view to" and insert "the objective of"
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Clause 21 [Intervention by Secretary of State]:
Lord Rooker moved Amendments Nos. 13 to 15:
- Page 12, line 10, after "unsatisfactory" insert "—
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Clause 24 [Conformity with regional strategy]:
Clause 27 [Secretary of State's default power]:
Lord Rooker moved Amendments Nos. 17 and 18:
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Baroness Wilkins moved Amendment No. 19:
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, Amendment No. 19 is supported, as are all the disability access amendments, by the Disability Rights Commission, RADAR, RNIB, the Town and Country Planning Association, Habinteg Housing Association, the JMU Access Partnership, the New Economics Foundation and John Grooms.
I raised the need for concerted action on lifetime homes and wheelchair-accessible homes at Report. My noble friend the Minister then promised a Government announcement on the subject before Third Reading and he was true to his word. I congratulate him on the decision to bring forward a review of the building regulations with a view to strengthening accessibility requirements through adoption of the Lifetime Homes standards which provide a standard for the design of new homes to ensure that they are accessible and adaptable as the needs of the occupants change. That would be a considerable improvement on the current building regulations, especially regarding issues such as parking, lighting, access around new homes and future adaptability. All new social housing is now developed to this standard in Wales and Northern Ireland. There will be huge benefits to disabled people, to older people and to every family as their needs change. There will also be huge savings to the taxpayer.
I also warmly welcome the commitment to consider how best to meet the need for more wheelchair accessible homes where there is now a real crisis. I understand that the new standards are unlikely to be in place for two years—I hope that the proposed timetable can be speeded up, because disabled people have waited a long time already.
The purpose of my amendment, however, is to invite the Government to acknowledge that the Lifetime Homes standards and wheelchair access standards cannot be successfully achieved at the detailed design stage unless the issue is raised and the principles and overall design concept agreed at the earliest possible stage in the planning process. In any case we need to plan to meet the current shortfall of 300,000 wheelchair accessible homes and to meet the needs of our ageing, diverse population for homes that can be
Can he give me an assurance that planning authorities will be encouraged in revised planning policy statements to follow the example of the GLA by setting appropriate targets for lifetime homes and wheelchair-accessible homes? I beg to move.
(a)"
Page 12, line 12, at end insert—
"(b) if he gives such a direction he must state his reasons for doing so."
Page 12, line 37, at end insert "and the reasons of the person making the recommendations"
Page 15, line 15, after "recommendations" insert "and reasons"
Page 15, line 19, at end insert—
"( ) The Secretary of State must give reasons for anything he does in pursuance of subsection (4)."
Page 21, line 16, at end insert—
"( ) Planning authorities may set targets in their development plans in respect of the proportion of new housing to be constructed to Lifetime Homes standards and wheelchair access standards respectively."
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