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Lord Lucas moved Amendment No. 40:
- Page 33, line 9, at end insert ", or
The noble Lord said: My Lords, in moving Amendment No. 40 I shall speak also to Amendment No. 41. I shall be extremely brief and I hope that the Minister will be able to give me the comforts I am
Baroness Hanham: My Lords, I wish to speak to the five further amendments in the group, Amendments Nos. 42, 44, 45, 96 and 99. They all concern Section 106 and the proposed planning contributions to be made in the form of a tariff.
On Report the Minister gave a firm indication that Section 106 of the Town and Country Planning Act would not be repealed, rather it would be included in regulations. Of course the Bill does repeal it in Schedule 6. We discussed at length the question whether, if it was repealed in this Bill, it could then be resurrected in regulations at a later stage. In speaking to Amendment No. 96, I want to put on the record that I think this is a very strange way of proceeding. Although the Minister is shaking his head, it is odd to repeal a section and then bring it back in regulations which may or may not come before Parliament again. However, we accept that Section 106 is going to continue in some form.
I turn to the tariff system. Again, on the last occasion that we discussed this, it had been decided, as the result of an intervention by the noble Lord, Lord Best, that tariffs needed to be looked at because of the impact they might have on affordable housing. I understood that a ministerial task force was being set up to look at the whole question of tariffs and decide how best to put them together. Again, this is a very strange way of proceeding at such a late stage of a Bill that has been meandering through Parliament for almost a year and a half. When the Bill was first introduced the tariffs were not included in it. They appeared at the end of the Bill's consideration in the other place.
I understand that the task force has been set up. It is due to report by September 2004. However, it has not had an auspicious start. An initial scoping meeting was held and a provisional date of 23 March was agreed for its first meeting. That did not take place and no subsequent date has been set. That does not set a good precedent for the importance that the Government attach to the task force. Perhaps the Minister can tell us why the meeting did not take place and whether it is envisaged that the six-month programme, which will not be completed until September, is still on target.
There is an added complication to the question of tariffs. We have touched on the Kate Barker housing review many times today. It states that the tariffs are "second best". What Kate Barker wants is a proper planning development tax, which of course is not what is provided in this Bill.
In the letter sent by the noble Lord to the noble Baroness, Lady Maddock, earlier this week, he stated:
The only part about which I am dubious is whether the "broad vision" is correct because, despite the matter being discussed on many occasions in the House, we still have no idea what the tariff will involve. The only saving grace is that the Government have made no case for hanging a sword over Section 106, which appears to be widely accepted by developers, and that section will be maintained.
We need a little more explanation of what is going on in regard to planning contributions. What are the proposals for ensuring that Parliament will have an opportunity to consider how the tariff system, if it comes into being, will operate? I understand that Section 106 is due to be reviewed as part of the work of the task force. We will need to consider the implications of that.
This is a serious matter and I hope that the Minister will be able to give satisfactory answers.
Baroness Maddock: My Lords, I support very much what the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, has said. Indeed, I am grateful to the Minister for sending me a detailed letter about primary and secondary legislation in the area of Section 106 agreements and tariffs.
We have made it quite clear that we would prefer to see an improved Section 106 system, not another new tariff system. As other noble Lords have said, the Barker review was published this week and contains, perhaps, a third method of dealing with the issue. Perhaps the Minister will explain today how this all fits together.
Like the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, and others, we are concerned that at the previous stage we were given reassurances about the consultation on this matter. In particular, the noble Lord, Lord Best, raised issues in regard to affordable housing. Since then, the National Housing Federation and the British Property Federation have written to me and have expressed great concern, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, said, about the progress of the consultations that were supposed to take place.
In the letter, the Government query our wish to retain Section 106 and state that other people have been very critical of it. That is true, but we want to keep a reformed version of it. Even some of the people who are critical of it want to see it reformed. We were given a summary of the consultation on the tariff system but there was not a single number in it quantifying any of the decisions. As I said at the time, if anyone undertaking a GCSE project had handed a summary like that in, they would not have been allowed to get away with it. But we are supposed to use it as a basis for moving forward on this important issue.
The Barker review will make a difference. I hope that the Minister will explain how the Government intend to deal with it. Again, I know that the British Property Federation is concerned about this and that it feels that if the Government press ahead with their
We have discussed this matter at some length—and I think the Minister knows where we all stand on it—but, because of the lack of clarification and the fact that all the detail will be in secondary legislation, it will be extremely difficult for this House to scrutinise the legislation properly and have a proper input. The Minister often refers to consultation and so on. If I had an office with three or five people researching for me, I could perhaps respond in detail to all the consultations. I cannot do that, but if matters are in primary legislation I have an opportunity to debate them on the Floor of the House.
This is a very serious matter. I am disappointed in the way it has been dealt with and I hope that the Minister will explain how it will be taken forward. Perhaps he will say how the Government intend to ensure that it works and that someone approves of it. Having seen all the planning proposals coming out of the Kate Barker review, I think I now understand why so much of what we have been discussing has to be in secondary legislation. It is so that the Government can bring in whatever they want from what has been said. That is not the right way to carry forward such an important issue. I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say.
Lord Rooker: My Lords, I will first deal with the bones of the amendment and then say something about Barker. I can say to the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, that the Government sympathise with the intent of Amendments Nos. 40 and 41, but believe that they are unnecessary. The amendments appear to be aimed at ensuring that planning contributions can be made by unilateral undertakings. Unilateral undertakings are most often made when a local planning authority refuses a planning application and the applicant then appeals to the Secretary of State. The applicant can offer a planning obligation at that stage, even if he has not been able to agree the terms of an obligation with the local planning authority.
The Secretary of State is able to take the unilateral undertaking into account when deciding whether to grant planning permission on appeal if he is satisfied that the undertaking is sufficient to make the application acceptable in planning terms. I give a clear assurance to the House that under the new system, the Government fully intend that developers will be able to make contributions by unilateral undertakings. Clause 46(2)(b) contains sufficient power to enable the Secretary of State to do that. I hope that that is sufficient response for the noble Lord.
On Section 106, I know that it is late and I do not want to wind anybody up, but I have to say that there is an unreasonable degree of impatience about the tariffs. It is not a function of Parliament to write all the details. That is not our role. I am not teaching my aunt to suck eggs, but I am asking for patience. There will be ample opportunity for this House and the other place to fully scrutinise the proposals that the Government bring forward, which will, after all, involve money. There will
We are abolishing Section 106 from primary legislation, but there is nothing unusual about moving blocks of legislation around. It is sometimes necessary. As I said at an earlier stage, it would be much better to have the legislation on the planning applications in the round, effectively in one document. The new optional charge will be introduced alongside the negotiated or unilateral undertaking route. It will be an optional charge. Obviously, there will be substantial consultation on that. It is no good people outside setting up aunt sallies and talking about red herrings. I apologise if the detail is not there, but that is the way of the world. It is too soon.
The advisory group was due to have its first meeting this week, but that has been postponed until April to give time to reflect on the implications of the Barker proposals. It is easy for me to say this, but I genuinely ask the House to bear with us. Although it was known what was in Barker as it came to the end of its deliberations, it was not possible to go around talking to the relevant parties to find out what was involved until it was published as part of the Budget day operation. We needed time to have a look at it. The stakeholders are quite content with the arrangements for taking on board what Barker has said and having the first meeting in April. There has been no problem and no complaint from any of the stakeholders. I mean that genuinely, because we are dealing with a practical point of view.
( ) by agreement or otherwise"
"The Government has a clear view of the broad shape of the tariff system, but has no details".
That really sums it up.
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