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Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer: My Lords, throughout the Bill's passage I have expressed—particularly to the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, who is not in his place—what a pity it is that it was introduced before the Government had brought forward a marine Act. That would have laid the framework for marine spatial planning and protection. I believed that the Government intended to introduce such a Bill, but that has not been forthcoming. We now face development at sea without any planning framework or adequate protection.
I was, however, cheered to see that recently the Joint Nature Conservancy Council has made a substantial proposal for a pilot in the Irish Sea, which should result in the introduction of a marine Bill very soon. I urge the Government to keep a close eye on the pilot's progress.
As regards the amendment, the marine environment is critically important, as I have said throughout. However, my concern is that throughout the passage of the Bill Conservative Members have expressed considerable reservations about land-based and marine-based wind power in general. The amendment would place on wind-power developers an onus that does not apply to current producers of lasting damage. Notable among such producers is Sellafield, which recently withdrew from a position that until now has upset our Irish neighbours considerably—it had been continuing to release unacceptable levels of radioactive material that affected the marine environment.
Although I fully support action to protect the marine environment, it is against the context that I have outlined that I do not support the amendment. Although perhaps unintentionally, the amendment would adversely affect wind power developers. Those on the Conservative Benches agree that we need more renewable energy, and we should not try to undermine its development in this way.
4 p.m.
Lord Jenkin of Roding: My Lords, I am tempted to say that we have come nearly full circle with the noble Baroness's final remarks. She may remember that I
opened my Second Reading speech with a description of the episode over which I had to preside as Secretary of State for the Environment relating to the discharge of radioactive material from Sellafield into the Irish Sea. I made the point that, in the past 30 years, discharges from that plant have been cut to about one thousandth of what they were at the beginning. I recognise what the noble Baroness says about the continuing complaints from the Irish Republic, but I am sure that I will have the Ministers with me when I say that they are almost wholly without foundation now.I have one point to make about the amendment. If one reads the press and the correspondence columns and hears what is said, one can be in no doubt that there is growing opposition in this country to land-based wind farms. They are seen as unsightly and, if sited near local inhabitants, noisy. They are seen as a danger to wildlife, especially birds. For those and other reasons, such wind farms arouse a good deal of hostility. The Government say, "Don't worry. We are going out to sea. We will establish our renewable energy zones right out beyond territorial waters, where none of those things will apply". Lo and behold, what do we find? The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds becomes extremely concerned at the likely damage to bird life.
In her amendment, my noble friend has rightly pointed to the fact that this is yet another threat to the marine environment. By hanging their hat so firmly on their targets for wind power and turning away from the primary objective—the saving of carbon—the Government delude themselves and delude a declining number of members of the public. I am sure that they are beginning to realise that supporting the idea that our energy gap can be closed by a combination of wind power and energy saving is living with the fairies. It will not happen like that.
As my noble friend so eloquently said, when we are faced with the growing concern about the impact of wind farms and all the other things on the marine environment, the policy becomes hopelessly unbalanced. We have discussed those matters at some length during the Bill's passage, and I have no doubt that they will be discussed in another place. My noble friend has done us a valuable service in tabling the amendment to remind Ministers once again that there is an environmental cost with their policy of building wind farms on the Continental Shelf.
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I am grateful to all who participated in our short debate, particularly to the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, who moved the amendment. It is the last amendment before the Government's amendments, which, I trust, will not cause much controversy, so it is appropriate that our last debate should cover the broad issues with which the Bill is concerned. I can think of no amendment that has greater breadth. The noble Lord, Lord Jenkin of Roding, took us back to Second Reading: he could have taken us through Committee as well, when all the issues were discussed at considerable length.
I make the obvious point that, of course, we share the sentiments behind the amendment. If we did not share the sentiments behind an amendment requiring us to take care of the natural environment, why would the Bill be the kind of Bill that it is? It is concerned with reducing carbon emissions and encouraging the development of an electricity supply from more benign sources.
The noble Lord, Lord Jenkin of Roding, is right to remind us that nothing in this difficult world is cost-free. There are some environmental costs with any aspect of new development. I have not the slightest doubt that, if we were able to produce all the wind energy that we wanted from one turbine, the people who lived closest to that turbine would have identified for us the environmental costs to their neighbourhood. That is in the nature of such issues. We cannot have an entirely cost-free proposal, but it is clear that the development of energy in this way will go some way towards our broad objective of meeting the Kyoto targets and will be in line with our general position on energy generation. The inspiration behind the Kyoto targets is concern about the natural environment on the whole planet. We are all aware of the consequences of doing too little, too late in that regard.
The only powers in the Bill to which the amendment relates in practice are the powers that enable the development of renewable energy installations in the renewable energy zone. In Committee, we had a lengthy debate on the decision-making process concerned with giving developmental approval to renewable energy installations. We considered the importance of ensuring that the process gave proper and adequate consideration to the impact on the natural environment. We continued the debate earlier on Report, when we discussed some key amendments. Throughout those debates, the Government have sought to provide genuine reassurance that the decision-making process will ensure, through the incorporation of strategic environmental assessment and site-specific environmental impact assessments, that there is protection and concern for the natural environment. Our argument today is unchanged from those advanced by myself and, most forcefully, by my noble friend Lord Whitty, who, regrettably, is not present to produce a summation of the debate.
I remind the House of our need to recognise the bigger environmental picture. It goes beyond even the local marine environment and ecology, which is why we need to create the renewable energy zone. In developing renewable energy installations, we seek to achieve net environmental benefits by reducing our dependence on carbon-based fuels that not only deplete the planet's limited natural resources but, as we all know, pump damaging carbon into the atmosphere, a major factor in global warming.
I cannot do justice to all the issues raised in our short debate, but neither could the noble Baroness who moved the amendment or others who spoke. We are considering the broad, general issues that we all face
with regard to protecting the natural environment. I emphasise that, obviously, substantial sections of the Bill are concerned with the natural environment and how we meet the necessary targets for protecting it and the health of the planet as a whole. I hope that, on that basis, the noble Baroness, having once again raised a very important issue, will be able to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Byford: My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that full response. I am not satisfied with his answer, and I think that he will understand that.
Before I return to the Minister's answer, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer, for her overall support in our concern for marine protection. We agree on that issue. We too would like to find out from the Government what they are going to do in the long term. Will they publish a marine Bill? Perhaps, that is for another day.
I particularly thank my noble friend Lord Jenkin of Roding. He is right to point out that there is growing opposition to wind farms—not just to the wind farms themselves but to the fact that they will not produce what was initially hoped. It is certainly true that the RSPB has been in touch with us and, I suspect, other noble Lords, because of its concern about the deaths caused to wildlife, especially birds, on existing wind farms.
The noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, said that I had not gone over the track to the full extent. I have borne his words of warning during our earlier days on Report in mind and made sure that I came back only with additional information, which he must have been pleased to have. That is why I find his answer very unsatisfactory. I wonder whether the officials who briefed him on the matter have read the report, because it was, as I said, published only on 21 March. His response to my questions did not deal with any of them. One thing that is clear from the report is that the present process is totally inadequate.
I feel strongly that the issue is important and will look carefully at what the Minister said. I am not prepared to put the matter to a vote at this stage, but I urge the Minister and his officials to have a good look at the report and my amendment to see whether they can come back with an amendment acceptable to the Government. I recognise that, in the short term, there may well be damage, as there is with other business conducted in the sea. We are trying to protect it from long-term damage.
For noble Lords who are quietly sitting listening to the debate, the Government acknowledged earlier on Report that some wind farms offshore could consist of 200 windmills. They are not one-offs; they are big areas. So it is all the more important that we get it right, which is what we are trying to do.
So I thank the Minister for his response. In particular, I thank my noble friend Lord Jenkin of Roding for his input. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 168 [Repeals]:
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