| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, I hope that at some stage in the course of this debate, somebody who either is not currently a QC or was not once a QC plays some part.
As for the points that the noble Lord has made, yes, those are arguments in favour of retention. However, he will be aware of what the OFT and the Commission for Judicial Appointments said about the inconsistency in the way in which appointments were made and the difficulty of making judgments in relation to the effect on the cost of provision of legal services. In reaching a solution in relation to the role of QC, we need to address those arguments as well as the arguments referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Renton.
Lord Davies of Coity: My Lords, I certainly agree with my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor that a decision has to be based on how the users rather than the providers view the situation. To what extent and how widespread is the objection from current users?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, one purpose of the consultation that we put in place was to try to obtain the views of users. There was only a limited response in that regard. People's individual experience of using the law when they have a QC is often extremely favourable, but there are wider questions about the effect on cost and about how we ensure that a mark such as QC preserves quality in the long term.
Lord Mackie of Benshie: My Lords, will the noble and learned Lord tell us what will happen to the present Queen's Counsel if no more are appointed? Will they all be unfrocked?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, in the course of the consultation, that particular issue was raised.
However, I wonder whether it would be sensible for someone to call himself, for example, the noble Lord, Lord Renton, QC (Ex).
Lord Selsdon: My Lords, will the noble and learned Lord remind us how many QCs there are in this House and in the other place and whether we have enough or too many?
Lord Falconer of Thoroton: My Lords, I think that might be a matter for your Lordships' House. The number in this House is uncountable.
Sudan: Darfur
3 p.m.
Lord Avebury asked Her Majesty's Government:
- Whether, in view of the current situation in Darfur, Sudan, they will consult other members of the United Nations Security Council with a view to agreeing a resolution under Chapter VII of the charter.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean): My Lords, on 8 April the Sudanese Government, the Sudan Liberation Movement and the Justice and Equality Movement signed a ceasefire agreement. Our priority now is to encourage the parties to implement that agreement. Given this progress, we do not consider that a resolution under Chapter VII would be appropriate but we remain in close contact with other Security Council members about Darfur.
Lord Avebury: My Lords, does the Minister agree that the ceasefire agreement is not working and that the massacres and destruction of property have continued? Will she say whether the report from the special envoy of the Human Rights Commission, who finally managed to enter Darfur on Saturday, will be published and whether it will be presented to the Security Council? If they are not prepared to take decisive measures, as the Secretary-General suggested more than two weeks ago, would it not be desirable that there should be a coalition of the willing to stop the ethnic cleansing in Darfur and to prevent genocide?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I cannot altogether agree with that analysis. The noble Lord said that the ceasefire is not holding. As I understand it, the situation on the ground is now more stable and there is access for humanitarian agencies, which we hope are now starting operations. However, I agree with him that the situation is enormously fragile and very difficult. We believe the right approach is to prioritise the monitoring of the ceasefire agreement on the ground. That is the priority rather than going back to the United Nations under Chapter VII, which we think might jeopardise the ceasefire agreement.
I ask the noble Lord to look seriously at the downside of going back on this issue, which could undermine the ceasefire agreement. I understand that the human rights team from the UN is planning to visit Darfur. We shall be very interested in its recommendations and we support the calls of the United States for a special session of the commission on human rights in Darfur, once the UN team has returned.
Baroness Whitaker: My Lords, if the allegations are true that it was the Sudanese Government who manoeuvred the United Nations reports on human rights abuses in Darfur off the agenda of the UN Human Rights Committee, this is a matter of great regret. Can the Minister think of what the UK Government could do to strengthen the United Nations Human Rights Committee?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, there have been a lot of different and contradictory views about what happened over the report at the UN. At one point, the EU was criticised by certain NGOs. The EU sponsored a more condemnatory draft resolution but, rather than lose the vote again, as we did last year, as I am sure the noble Baroness recalls, we decided that it was better to vote in the way that we did. In any case, that has delivered a better outcome than last year, when the EU resolution was voted down, which ended the mandate of the special rapporteur on human rights in Sudan. So I think that the position has been strengthened this year.
Lord Astor of Hever: My Lords, will the Government be contributing to the recent appeal of the United Nations for 115 million dollars for the Darfur region?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I am sure that all these appeals will be considered by my colleagues in the Department for International Development. In the expectation of a peace agreement, the UK has allocated some £35 million to Sudan for the year 2004–05. In addition, we have allocated some £3.5 million from the Africa conflict prevention pool.
Lord Hylton: My Lords, the Minister rightly mentioned supervision of the ceasefire. Can she confirm that there are monitors available to go in straightaway and that they have sufficient transport and aircraft to enable them to do a good job?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I cannot confirm that there are people ready and waiting to go. I can say that the top priority of the Government of the United Kingdom is to ensure that the monitoring mechanism is available to us as soon as possible. If I have any more information on the readiness of a monitoring group, I shall write to the noble Lord, Lord Hylton.
Lord Rea: My Lords, my noble friend mentioned the ceasefire. There are on-going negotiations in
Naivasha, Kenya, on the long-standing conflict between the Sudanese Government and the SPLA. Is it not a tragedy that the conflict has now transferred to the Darfur region? Would it not be logical to link the two conflicts in negotiations to resolve them?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I am bound to say to your Lordships that there was always conflict in Darfur. We discussed this matter in your Lordships' House on 15 and 28 January and on 9 February. At every point we have distinguished between the overall position in Sudan and the particular and very nasty differences in the situation in Darfur. As far as the main peace talks are concerned, they are continuing and we hope that a framework agreement will emerge in the next few weeks. It will then take some time to tie down the details before a comprehensive package can be signed. I say to my noble friend Lord Rea that I do not think it is sensible to try to stop those talks, which are showing some good progress, in order to pull in the Darfur peace talks. We should progress those talks and hope that we can work hard to reinforce the ceasefire in Darfur.
Rainsbrook Secure Training Centre
3.6 p.m.
Lord Elton asked Her Majesty's Government:
- What disciplinary steps have been taken following the death in custody at Rainsbrook Secure Training Centre, on Monday 19 April, of 15 year-old Gareth Myatt.
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, the staff directly involved have been transferred to duties not involving contact with children. It would, in view of the circumstances, be inappropriate to suspend or discipline any staff without prima facie evidence that they had acted in an inappropriate, unprofessional or criminal manner. However, if, following police investigations, further concerns are raised, the physical control in care certificate would be revoked from the staff in question. Staff without a valid certification are not allowed to practise in any childcare establishment.
Lord Elton: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. I recognise the constraints under which it was delivered. But whatever the cause of the death of this child of 15, who stood under five feet tall, is it not clear from the police report on the event that it followed his violent resistance to being told to go to bed at nine o'clock in the evening? It followed the application by staff of what the report itself describes as,
- "their normal techniques of physical control and care",
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |