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Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, my noble friend raises a very interesting point in relation to a Europe-wide intelligence service. Noble Lords know that we are working as hard as we can with our European colleagues. It is right that not all European countries have the same system in terms of identifying perpetrators and targeting them in a way that we would recognise. We continue that work.

This is certainly not a case of heads on platters. I hope that noble Lords will find that we have been judicious and have tried to be proportionate in the way in which we have approached the issues. The decisions to which we have come have been come to painfully and very carefully, after proper consideration of the discoveries made by Sir Michael Bichard in his report.

The Earl of Northesk: My Lords, I associate myself with the heartfelt expressions of sympathy with the families of Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells from the respective Front Benches.

Obviously, I have not had the opportunity to read the report in full, but I draw the Minister's attention to paragraph 23 of the introduction, which states:

"I suggest . . . that better guidance is needed on the collection, retention, deletion, use and sharing of information, so that police officers, social workers and other professionals can feel more confident in using information properly".

I also draw her attention to the Home Secretary's insistence that a national system across all relevant services, allowing more effective sharing of information and intelligence, is urgently needed. Will the Minister accept that that gets to the core of the problem facing us, and that the legislative opportunity to address it exists in the form of an appropriate amendment to the Children Bill? That being so, and bearing in mind the tenor of Sir Michael's comments, will the Government seize that opportunity?

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I am always attracted by such seductive lures cast to me at the Dispatch Box. However, it is important that we get things right. My noble friend Lord Mackenzie indicated that we should not be precipitate. We have to be balanced and make sure that the systems that we put in place are fair and proportionate, and that we might not regret them later. I know the attraction of the Bill; it is like a passing bus on to which the noble
 
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Earl asks me to jump, but that may be a precipitate move. We will of course give all issues very careful consideration.

Lord Elton: My Lords, there is greater need for impatience than the noble Viscount, Lord Simon, suggests. It was in the 1970s that the necessity of transferring information across county borders in relation to children at risk was first raised, and I agree with my noble friend Lord Northesk that the matter is relevant to the Bill, on which the noble Baroness takes no part. However, I hope that her colleagues will note the matter.

Because of the anxiety about the transfer of information, and because the case has so clearly shown that one individual moving from place to place can strike again and again with impunity without it, I was rather distressed to hear in the Statement that only England and Wales were under review. I am not sure that I go so far as the noble Lord, Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate—we want to think carefully before we start a monster machine to cover the whole of Europe—but the United Kingdom as a whole should be in the frame, not simply England and Wales. That is a comment and a question; I invite the noble Baroness to say that the Government will consider embracing Scotland and Northern Ireland as well.

My second question is on whether the statutory code of practice, when introduced, will be subject to the affirmative procedure. Will a means of discussing it be found, in the same way as codes of practice were discussed in parallel with the passing of the then PACE Bill in this House? In that context, what the noble Lord, Lord McNally, said about the dangers of false information is very relevant, because there has to be a means whereby someone wrongly identified or accused can clear their name. At the moment, there is no reason for them to know that it needs to be cleared.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, no decision has been made on whether the code of practice should have the negative or affirmative resolution procedure attached to it. We will obviously have to consider the merits of that in due course. Noble Lords will know that England and Wales has one legal judicial system and that a different system prevails for Scotland, with a slightly different system for Northern Ireland. Therefore, when we expressed our views in the Statement, that was obviously in relation to England and Wales. However, there is a huge job of work to do in co-ordination and co-operation right across the United Kingdom. We will certainly look at that very carefully and talk to colleagues to ensure that that synergy takes place.

Lord Ezra: My Lords, although I welcome very much the positive response of the Government to the report on establishing a national system, I am somewhat concerned about the size of the problem. I was impressed with the statistic cited by the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, that 50,000 queries a year are addressed to Humberside alone. That seems to put
 
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substantial additional burdens on the police force. Therefore, the question arises of whether there should not be a separate agency to deal with such matters, so that the police would not be diverted from their other activities in following up those inquiries.

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I hear what the noble Lord says, but he will know that there is an issue in terms of the proliferation of agencies involved in such activity and making sure that the practitioners that collate the information actually participate in the system. When we look at creating something more fit for the purpose than what we have now, all those issues will of course be very much to the forefront of our minds.

Higher Education Bill

Lord Grocott: My Lords, I have it in command from Her Majesty the Queen to acquaint the House that she, having been informed of the purport of the Higher Education Bill, has consented to place her Prerogative and Interest, so far as they are affected by the Bill, at the disposal of Parliament for the purposes of the Bill.

Bill read a third time.

Lord Shutt of Greetland moved Amendment No. 1:

After Clause 25, insert the following new clause—

"REPAYMENT OF FEES VIA VOLUNTARY SERVICE (1) The Secretary of State shall use his powers under section 186 of the Education Act 2002 (c. 32) (student loans) to develop a scheme whereby fees charged under sections 23 and 24 of this Act may be repaid in whole or in part through the performance of voluntary service. (2) Regulations under section 186 of the 2002 Act shall specify both the types of voluntary service eligible and the minimum period of service necessary to qualify for such repayments."

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I again speak on the issue of volunteering. There may be advantages and disadvantages to having three bites at a cherry, but there is a sense in which markets move upwards or downwards. I feel very much that markets are moving upwards so far as the amendment is concerned, or at least in terms of my enthusiasm for it. I am therefore pleased to move the amendment.

There are three relevant areas. I do not want to go over old ground, and I understand that it is the convention of the House that we do not do so. First, I should establish volunteering as worth while and valuable for young people. There has been support all round the House for that principle.

My second point is that we do not really know at this stage where the Bill will lead us in a variety of ways, the effect that it will have on young people and their parents in their attitudes to university education—and on many other areas of later life. All that we know is that there will be another element of debt, on top of other debts, in our present society. Therefore, there is a major worry that volunteering will not be uppermost in the minds of people who are about to make their
 
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way in the world after obtaining a degree. The amendment aims to suggest to them that perhaps it might be worth considering volunteering.

My third point is that there is a gap in the volunteering market for people who have obtained their degrees and at that point might consider, "Shall we do some volunteering or do we make our way in the world?". That gap is not there at other times of life. For example, the "gap year" is a time when there are opportunities for volunteering and there are no associated financial problems.

There are also opportunities for people later in life. It is interesting that Voluntary Services Overseas—VSO—is keen on people who can bring many different experiences of life, who then go overseas and give their services in the third world and so on. The numbers of people who have graduated who take up volunteering at that stage are very low. They could benefit in many ways from the amendment.

I was grateful at an earlier stage to have the support of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, who is present. He referred to VSO. Its chief executive, Mark Goldring, has pointed out that this amendment, or an amendment similar to this, would be valuable to that organisation. He has been mooting that idea and said that it should be passed on to the Minister.

A concern was raised earlier over the nature of the scheme. In moving the amendment we believe that it is important to establish the principle and not be prescriptive over the details of the scheme. There are two possible ways forward. One would be for the Government, who are invited to propose a scheme, to say, "Our proposal is for there to be 1,000 opportunities a year". They would discuss that with the organisations involved in volunteering and ask them to bid, as it were, for the numbers that they might be able to take from those 1,000 a year. Another way would be to have no fixed limit, but exacting standards on who could benefit from what might be called a fee remission certificate, provided that they did the appropriate amount of volunteering.

We are right to say, "Let us establish this important principle to fill an obvious gap", but not to go into details that might well cover half a dozen pages in the list of amendments. I beg to move.

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