| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Baroness Anelay of St Johns: My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall speak to Amendment No. 38, which stands in my name and is grouped with Amendment No. 37. In moving his amendment, the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, rightly addressed the broad principle underlying this clause. When we first debated this issue in Committee on Recommitment, I, like him, raised the concern that we are being asked to sign a blank cheque for the Secretary of State to apply a refusal of a right of appeal in the future to such categories as he or she may designate.
I then asked at whom the Government were now aiming this provision. Was it aimed at alleged bogus students going to alleged bogus colleges? The Government said that it was. Therefore, my Amendment No. 38 continues to probe the mechanism that the Government intend to put in place properly to prevent people attending sham colleges. It is on that basis that I tabled this amendment for Third Reading.
Of course, we are aware that those who represent the interests of education in this country are fully behind the Government's policy to land a punch on the sham colleges. We have heard from UKCOSA, the Association of Colleges and ARELS, all of which are in favour of a proper policy. But they all have a difficulty in seeing how the Government's proposals in this new clause reflect a real attempt to cut down on sham colleges.
On Report on Recommitment, I asked what criteria the Government would use to determine a college's eligibility to get on to a register of bona fide colleges that the Government tell us will be operated by DfES but will be accepted by the Home Office for the purposes of identifying which colleges are all right and which are not. In response, the Minister concentrated on saying what the criteria would not be. He said that they would not relate to quality control or state what the level of education should be. I fully accept
6 Jul 2004 : Column 771
that because it is not the duty of the Home Office to determine the quality or level of education in either privately or publicly funded establishments.
Surely we should have some indication from the Government of what their discussions with the DfES have thrown up concerning how a college will get on to a list. The Minister will be aware that the education world is concerned that the DfES may operate a list which will have fewer hoops for people to go through in order to get on to it. It will be easier for the colleges to get on to that list than it will be for them to get on the current Home Office list. The education world is saying that the Home Office's current list of bona fide colleges should constitute the minimum level of entry. Possibly the level set should be tougher than that, but that should certainly be the minimum level of entry.
One particular concern is that the information from the DfES so far leads some people to believe that it may be sufficient for an organisation or company acting as a college simply to say, "Here are our company accounts. We can prove that we are trading". What we need tonight is an assurance that that will not be sufficient. As we know from apocryphal stories that have come before noble Lords, some organisations can produce trading accounts that, in anyone's view, would be considered to be those of a bogus college. We would not want people to gain right of entry if they were allegedly attending such a college.
I also asked the Minister whether he could give an assurance that the Immigration and Nationality Directorate would provide colleges with a list of students who had been issued with visas on the basis of an offer letter from a college. I asked that because it was something that the colleges specifically wanted to see in place. The Minister replied that the DfES was consulting representative bodies from the education sector on this matter. He said that he could not give an assurance about how the system would operate because the detail was still being worked out. Therefore, at this late stage—it is only a week later, I know—I am asking whether the Minister has any further and better particulars on the matter.
The Minister has been playing a straight bat in telling the House that many of these policies are still under discussion. This is our last chance to obtain from the Government an account of their progress. As other noble Lords have commented today, my honourable and right honourable friends in another place will have but a limited time in which to consider these matters when they go to another place. Therefore, I think it is right that we ask the Minister to update us on how far we have progressed on these matters.
Lord Rooker: My Lords, perhaps I can with the leave of the House and a bit of goodwill put two paragraphs on the record. That will save writing letters—there are delays with letters in the post, as we know.
6 Jul 2004 : Column 772
The noble Countess, Lady Mar, is still in her place and I hope I can give her a decent answer. She thought the last one I gave was appalling. She asked me if paragraph 284 of the immigration rules works. Yes it does.
Paragraph 284 of the immigration laws requires that persons applying for leave to remain on the basis of marriage to a British citizen or persons settled here have extant leave to remain in the UK and have been granted over six months leave since the date that they were admitted.
However, paragraph 284 does not affect the spouses of European economic area nationals. It is the act of marriage that gives the right of residence and not the act of the Home Office granting leave. I have probably explained that inadequately. It is working but it does not do the job that we intended it to do.
In his absence I would also like to answer the specific question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Lester, about paragraph 46 of the JCHR report. Bearing in mind that it will be pretty quick when the other place gets this, it is important to get an answer on the record. The report said that the legislation was silent about the purpose of the open-ended power to exempt certain classes of individuals, and so on, from the new requirements.
The answer—my brief says "line to take" here—is that the power to exempt certain categories of persons can be found in subsections (3)(c) of Clauses 19, 21 and 23. At present the Government envisage that persons with settled status in the UK will be exempted from the requirement for entry clearance or the certificate of approval. We do not feel that it would be appropriate to state this category of person on the face of the Bill. By leaving it to secondary legislation we are able to then consider the effectiveness of the measures and who it would be appropriate to exempt, taking into account fluctuations in the sizes of categories and future changes in immigration rules. I hope that answers the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Lester.
The Countess of Mar: My Lords, I refer to the Minister's reply to me. If that provision works for people marrying British citizens, why do we not apply these clauses to those marrying EEA nationals?
Lord Rooker: My Lords, that was probably the original question that the noble Countess, Lady Mar, asked in Committee. It is not possible to do that as it would mix up European and UK legislation. That is the point at issue. There is a route through. We have clearly stated that people can nip off to France or Germany, get married and go through the route that way. We are not blocking it off. We are doing our best to put a hurdle against some of the alleged sham marriages. Nobody says that it is perfect and completely blocks everything off.
I turn to these two amendments, with which I will deal in reverse order. I have already spoken at some length about the Government's intention to address the problem of students who enrol at bogus colleges,
6 Jul 2004 : Column 773
or at establishments that do not maintain proper attendance checks. This amendment resembles closely the amendment that was withdrawn. I understand why it has been placed on the agenda tonight, I have no problem about that.
The amendment places on the face of the Bill the Government's intention to create a register of bona fide or approved colleges, and of making enrolment at a registered college a requirement of the immigration rules. The order-making power provided by new Clause 29 could then be used to specify this requirement. The consequence of such a specification would be that an entry clearance application refused on these grounds would not attract a right of appeal. This revised amendment makes it clear that the registration requirement should not affect persons domiciled in an EEA state.
I am not entirely clear as to the reason for this reference to domicile in the EEA. European economic area nationals travel freely to the United Kingdom without the requirement for prior entry clearance. A non-European economic family may require an EEA family permit before travelling to the United Kingdom.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns: My Lords, with great apologies to the Minister, it was only when he expressed his puzzlement just now that I re-read the wording of the amendment. What I tabled was,
There has been a trifle of a mix-up in the typing here. It is one of those dreadful things: when I read something in the Marshalled List I see what I think should be there, not what is there. It is my fault and I apologise to the Minister.
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |