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Lord Kingsland: I am going to say this to the government Benches only once more. In tabling the amendment, we are not seeking to defend the status quo. We accept the architecture of the Bill. We simply believe that its foundations would be so much deeper if the role granted to the Secretary of State was played instead by the Lord Chancellor. The issue is simple: what sort of person should perform the role of the Secretary of State as defined in the Bill?

Whatever the Government's motives for opposing the amendment, I have no doubt about the consequences. The effect of operating these new arrangements with a Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs will profoundly and needlessly undermine the rule of law.

The Government are risking our future by their uncontrollable obsession with obliterating our past.

I wish to test the opinion of the Committee.

On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 1) shall be agreed to?
 
13 Jul 2004 : Column 1191
 

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 240; Not-Contents, 208.


Division No. 1


CONTENTS

Ackner, L.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Arran, E.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Bagri, L.
Ballyedmond, L.
Bell, L.
Belstead, L.
Biffen, L.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Bowness, L.
Boyce, L.
Bramall, L.
Bridge of Harwich, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Cameron of Lochbroom, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carrington, L.
Chadlington, L.
Chalfont, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chilver, L.
Chorley, L.
Coe, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawford and Balcarres, E.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dearing, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Dundee, E.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goschen, V.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hanson, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg, B.
Home, E.
Howard of Rising, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hutton, L.
Hylton, L.
Inge, L.
Inglewood, L.
James of Holland Park, B.
Jauncey of Tullichettle, L.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jopling, L.
Kalms, L.
Kelvedon, L.
Kilclooney, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkham, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laidlaw, L.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lindsay, E.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd of Berwick, L. [Teller]
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Macfarlane of Bearsden, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moran, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Moser, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nickson, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Oxford, Bp.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patten, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Prior, L.
Pym, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rogan, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
Sainsbury of Preston Candover, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandwich, E.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Sterling of Plaistow, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tanlaw, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Tenby, V.
Thatcher, B.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Ullswater, V.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Waldegrave of North Hill, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Walpole, L.
Warnock, B.
Weatherill, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Wilson of Dinton, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Windlesham, L.
Wolfson, L.
Wolfson of Sunningdale, L.
Worcester, Bp.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young of Graffham, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President of the Council)
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Barker, B.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Best, L.
Billingham, B.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blood, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Carter of Coles, L.
Chan, L.
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Drayson, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fearn, L.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fitt, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Giddens, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Greengross, B.
Grenfell, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Henig, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooson, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Jones, L.
Judd, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
McDonagh, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morgan of Huyton, B.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Nicol, B.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Parekh, L.
Paul, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Robertson of Port Ellen, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sheldon, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Snape, L.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stern, B.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Triesman, L.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Varley, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.


Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.


 
13 Jul 2004 : Column 1194
 

Lord Evans of Temple Guiting: I beg to move that the House do now resume. In moving this Motion I suggest that the Committee stage begin again not before 8.15 p.m.

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

House resumed.


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