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Lord Bach: My Lords, I knew that I was not looking forward to answering this Question. Of course, I agree with the noble Baroness that our Armed Forces are the best in the world. I say "of course" because I think that events over many, many years, including over the past year in particular, have shown that. Of course I accept the value of the regimental system.

However, I must tell the noble Baroness that changes to the Army's infantry structure do not automatically mean that the history, traditions and contribution of famous regiments will disappear or cannot be incorporated within a new structure. It is a fact that very few of our regiments and corps exist today in exactly the same form as they did in the past. There has been a constant process of change and regeneration and that is why our Armed Forces are the best in the world. New organisations are being created in them, fostering previous military renown while developing their own traditions and reputations to engender the loyalty and camaraderie which are right at the centre of our excellence.

Lord Crickhowell: My Lords, I had the honour many years ago to serve in the Royal Welch Fusiliers, now serving in Iraq. Over the past decade at least, they have had an outstanding record of recruitment, based on roots in geography, community and culture. While welcoming what the Minister said about the importance of regional connections, does he agree that any attempt to merge regiments into so-called large regiments which do not have common links of that kind will end in a disastrous reduction in both the quality of those regiments and the recruiting record?

Lord Bach: My Lords, of course we want the new merged regiments to have links with each other; that is important. In future, those individual battalions will
 
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be fixed by role, and largely by location, and in any new structure the Army will seek to retain existing geographical links. We believe that that is likely to result in even greater identity between the recruiting area and the location in which people serve. I repeat, because it is important to the House in particular, that our aim is to ensure that the links are maintained wherever possible.

Lord Astor of Hever: My Lords, does the Minister agree at this time of great uncertainty in terms of national security that to cut four infantry battalions with their extensive and ever-changing commitments is an act of dangerous folly?

Lord Bach: No, my Lords; I do not agree with the noble Lord. We are restructuring the Army and the infantry in particular to increase significantly the manpower available for expeditionary operations. In that respect, the restructuring of the infantry about which the noble Lord asked is made possible by progress made towards a lasting peace in Northern Ireland. Such progress is predicated on full normalisation being secured in Northern Ireland. If that does not happen, we shall keep what we propose under review. Because of that, we have been able to reduce the number of infantry battalions in the Province by four, a move which, owing to the need to take battalions through this task, has freed up 16 battalions for use on other tasks.

The manpower freed up by that move will be redistributed across the Army, not only to develop more robust and resilient establishments in the infantry but also to bolster the most heavily specialist areas, such as logistics, engineers, signallers and intelligence. What is crucial to all of this is the phasing out of the traditional practice of arms plotting. That will further increase, we believe, as does the Army Board, the efficiency and availability of Army resources.

Lord Maginnis of Drumglass: My Lords, do the Government recognise the regional significance and necessity of ensuring that at least one regiment of the line is maintained in each constituent area of the United Kingdom?

Lord Bach: My Lords, we know very well our obligations and the necessities around the whole of the United Kingdom. As I say, because of progress in Northern Ireland, it has been the considered view that four battalions that are presently serving there do not need to remain there.

Lord Garden: My Lords, I welcome very much the Government's moves towards getting rid of arms plotting and the inflexibility and inefficiencies associated with it. But, having said that, for all the reasons given by other noble Lords, we are uncertain, and I should like to know the Minister's view. Is he certain about the effect on recruitment and retention at a time when our forces are employed in Iraq,
 
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Afghanistan, the Balkans and Africa? Should we not just keep infantry numbers static, even if we reorganise, until we see how things work out?

Lord Bach: My Lords, I think that I have already answered that point. I am grateful to the noble Lord for his support for the abolition of arms plotting. He, with his experience, will know that it has served its purpose. We believe that there will be great benefits in having battalions based in one location rather than having to move around, as they do regularly. That in itself, in time, will help recruitment. Of course, we are carefully monitoring recruitment at present. The record has been much improved in the past few years, perhaps because of the amount of activity. However, the noble Lord is quite right; we have to watch carefully and ensure that any new measures we implement do not affect recruitment. We think that this measure will improve it.

Lord Morris of Aberavon: My Lords, I make the same declaration as the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell. Does the Minister accept that regimental loyalty, particularly if based on areas, once lost is not easily replaced? Will he be more precise as regards what he proposes to do? If these regiments mean anything, will not such a change lead to a dilution of regimental tradition, loyalty and ties, and possibly affect recruitment?

Lord Bach: My Lords, we do not believe that it will. As I have explained, and as the noble and learned Lord knows well, changes in this system have occurred for many, many years. Since 1958, 54 infantry and 23 cavalry regiments have been the subject of amalgamation, 35 of which occurred after the Options for Change review in 1992. As I understand it, all those succeeded satisfactorily. We shall watch with great care to ensure that the changes we propose do not in any way dilute the regimental system.

Mental Health: Ethnic Communities

Lord Chan asked Her Majesty's Government:

What progress has been made in the past 12 months to implement the recommendations of the Department of Health report on mental health in ethnic communities.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Warner): My Lords, progress is being made through major reform of and investment in mental health services for black and minority ethnic communities, although much still needs to be done.

In partnership with leading national experts, sustainable change is being introduced. Among initiatives being put in place are 80 community engagement projects, 500 community development
 
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workers, a programme of education and training in cultural competence for frontline staff and a national census project on race and ethnicity in mental health.

Lord Chan: My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. While accepting the progress made in partnership working with some minority ethnic groups, including the Irish, does he agree that the amount of work done to improve mental health services to make them relevant to the needs of ethnic minority people has been quite small?

Is the Minister aware of the results of the 13 community surveys on ethnic mental health conducted in the first quarter of last year involving more than 500 participants, in which I declare an interest as a participant? What is the Government's response to the survey's findings that nine in 10 felt that service access was problematic and half of the 110 service users, patients, had experienced racial discrimination in mental health services? Should more be done to ensure that the mental health workforce has the appropriate management skills because compulsory treatment will be proposed in the new mental health Bill?

Lord Warner: My Lords, I did not mean to imply that we are satisfied with the progress that has been made. However, I did mean to imply that progress was being made. I accept the noble Lord's point that more needs to be done. We are aware of the information and surveys to which the noble Lord referred. Certainly, I pay tribute to the work done by the noble Lord in keeping this important issue at the forefront of the Government's and the public's attention.

To give one example, we are developing 10 pilot community engagement projects that have been identified across England reflecting the needs and concerns of a wide range of black and minority ethnic groups. That is why we are trying to put in place the kinds of services the noble Lord rightly says that we need.

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