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Baroness Finlay of Llandaff: My Lords, I am absolutely delighted to accept the Minister's explanation. I shall have to read Hansard to learn the last piece off by heart because it is so complicated. I appreciate the trouble to which the Government have gone to clarify the wording on this. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Lord Warner moved Amendments Nos. 57 and 58:

On Question, amendments agreed to.

[Amendment No. 59 not moved.]

Clause 45 [Religious relics]:

Lord Warner moved Amendments Nos. 60 and 61:

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Clause 46 [Interpretation of Part 2]:

Lord Warner moved Amendment No. 62:

On Question, amendment agreed to.
 
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Schedule 5 [Section 50: Supplementary]:

[Amendments Nos. 63 to 65 not moved.]

Earl Howe moved Amendments Nos. 66 and 67:

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Lord Warner moved Amendments Nos. 68 to 74:


"(2A) If the Authority is satisfied—
(a) that bodily material has come from the body of a living person,
(b) that it is desirable in the interests of another person (including a future person) that DNA in the material be analysed for the purpose of obtaining scientific or medical information about the person from whose body the material has come ("the donor"),
(c) that reasonable efforts have been made to get the donor to decide whether to consent to the use of the material for that purpose,
(d) that there is no reason to believe—
(i) that the donor has died,
(ii) that a decision of the donor to refuse to consent to the use of the material for that purpose is in force, or
(iii) that the donor lacks capacity to consent to the use of the material for that purpose, and
(e) that the donor has been given notice of the application for the exercise of the power conferred by this sub-paragraph,
it may direct that this paragraph apply to the material for the benefit of the other person."

On Question, amendments agreed to.

[Amendment No. 75 not moved.]

Lord Warner moved Amendment No. 76:


"(3A) If the Court of Session is satisfied—
(a) that bodily material has come from the body of a living person,
(b) that it is desirable in the interests of another person (including a future person) that DNA in the material be analysed for the purpose of obtaining scientific or medical information about the person from whose body the material has come ("the donor"),
(c) that reasonable efforts have been made to get the donor to decide whether to consent to the use of the material for that purpose,
 
25 Oct 2004 : Column 1140
 

(d) that there is no reason to believe—
(i) that the donor has died,
(ii) that a decision of the donor to refuse to consent to the use of the material for that purpose is in force, or
(iii) that the donor is an incapable adult within the meaning of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Act 2000 (asp 4), and
(e) that the donor has been given notice of the application for the exercise of the power conferred by this sub-paragraph,
it may order that this paragraph apply to the material for the benefit of the other person."

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 52 [Power to de-accession human remains]:

Baroness Andrews moved Amendment No. 77:

The noble Baroness said: My Lords, this amendment is a direct response to the representations made in Grand Committee by the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, and by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws. In Committee, noble Lords were very concerned to ensure that the de-accessioning power did not make the collections held by the museums listed in Clause 52 vulnerable to gratuitous claims for de-accessioning. I know that they were particularly concerned about the ancient collections of human remains in the British Museum. The amendment we have brought forward responds to that concern by ensuring that the remains of people who died more than 1,000 years before the clause comes into force are outside the scope of this power.

While this amendment is in keeping with the spirit of the amendment brought forward in Committee, which we undertook to consider, it clearly differs in substance on a number of points. This reflects discussions between DCMS and the museums named in Clause 52, and particularly with the British Museum, the Museum of London, and the Natural History Museum, all of which have agreed to the amendment in this form.

First, specifying a cut-off point of 1,000 years, instead of 500 years, will allow the Museum of London to make use of this power in de-accessioning the substantial number of medieval remains which it has within its collection, something which the 500 year cut-off would not have permitted. Secondly, the Government's formulation also allows for professional judgment to be exercised on the part of museum curators, archaeologists and other experts regarding the dating of human remains. This is appropriate as there are a number of ways in which human remains can be dated. These include radiocarbon dating, examination of the circumstances in which the remains were found and of the artefacts with which they may have been buried.
 
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None of those methods will necessarily pinpoint the date of death to a precise year. We have, therefore, formulated this amendment so that it will be sufficient that the remains are "reasonably believed" to be those of people who died less than 1,000 years before the clause comes into force in order for them to fall within the scope of the de-accessioning power. I hope that noble Lords will agree that we have met their concerns, and will understand why this amendment is in this form. I beg to move.

Baroness Neuberger: My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Redesdale, I thank the Minister for this concession, which we support.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 57 [Orders and regulations]:

Lord Warner moved Amendments Nos. 78 to 82:

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Clause 59 [General interpretation]:

[Amendment No. 83 not moved.]

Schedule 7 [Consequential amendments]:


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