Lord Hanningfield: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. As a Conservative I support choice, but we are not talking about choice for the people affected. This is social housing, in which many people have no choice; they have sub-standard homes in which investment is needed. We suggest that the rating be achieved by 2016. Although the Minister quoted figures for a lot of extra expenditure, that could be phased in over time. I do not think that the Minister gave any adequate answers to the problem. In moving the amendment I suggested that we would save money by having, in addition to the general scheme, a scheme to ensure that dwellings achieved the right SAP rating, because homes would have to be visited only once.
3 Nov 2004 : Column 381
I am afraid that, often, the Government like to talk about issues but do not put the money behind the infrastructure that the country needs. If they do not want to put the money behind such issues, they should not talk about them. The Government like to talk the talk, but they do not want to walk the walk. We shall therefore have to test the opinion of the House.
On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 51) shall be agreed to?
Their Lordships divided: Contents, 158; Not-Contents, 108.
Division No. 3
CONTENTS
Addington, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Attlee, E.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Best, L.
Blatch, B.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Bradshaw, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Cameron of Dillington, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chadlington, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Crickhowell, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dundee, E.
Dykes, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Fearn, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fookes, B.
Fowler, L.
Freeman, L.
Garden, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Greengross, B.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Howard of Rising, L.
Howe, E.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Jacobs, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jopling, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Liverpool, Bp.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Methuen, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Montrose, D.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murphy, B.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Peel, E.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prashar, B.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Roper, L. [Teller]
Rotherwick, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Seccombe, B.
Selsdon, L.
Sharman, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Steinberg, L.
Stewartby, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taverne, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tope, L.
Trumpington, B.
Vallance of Tummel, L.
Vinson, L.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williamson of Horton, L.
NOT-CONTENTS
Acton, L.
Alli, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President of the Council)
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Borrie, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Craigavon, V.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Drayson, L.
D'Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haworth, L.
Henig, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jones, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leitch, L.
Levy, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
McDonagh, B.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Maxton, L.
Mitchell, L.
Monson, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
O'Neill of Bengarve, B.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prosser, B.
Radice, L.
Rooker, L.
Rosser, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sewel, L.
Simon, V.
Snape, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Triesman, L.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Winston, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Norwood Green, L.
Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.
3 Nov 2004 : Column 383
Baroness Hanham moved Amendment No. 52:
After Clause 209, insert the following new clause
"IMPROVEMENTS IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY
(1) For the purposes of
(a) improving the energy efficiency of residential accommodation;
(b) increasing the comfort level of occupants of residential accommodation; and
(c) alleviating fuel poverty,
the Secretary of State shall take reasonable steps to ensure an increase in residential energy efficiency of at least 20% by 2010 based upon 2000 levels.
(2) In this section
"fuel poverty" has the same meaning as in the Warm Homes and Energy Conservation Act 2000 (c. 31); and
"residential energy efficiency" means the energy efficiency of residential accommodation."
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I can be brief. We have discussed this issue in the past. It is an important amendment to which we return. The amendment would require a 20 per cent improvement in domestic energy efficiency by 2010 based on 2000 levels. That is the target that the Government assured the publicthey have done so no less than 15 timeswould be set as the energy efficiency aim under the Sustainable Energy Act. The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, in the House on 27 October 2003, said the same thing. That was until the Government reneged on those promises in April and reduced the level by 16 per cent.
The 20 per cent improvement is a target supported by the Energy Saving Trust, the Government's official advisers on energy efficiency; the Cabinet Office Performance and Innovation Unit, the Government's advisers on energy policy; and the Sustainable Development Commission, the Government's advisers on sustainable development.
It is also supported by more than half of the House of Commons: 340 MPs have signed Early-Day Motion 96 in support of that target. We are sometimes criticised for not supporting energy efficiency: we are now being criticised for taking it on board. But those, of course, are standards that the Government have set and should be implemented.
The DTI, Defra and the Government's Sustainable Energy Policy Network have all publicly stated in one way or another that they support the improvement that is suggested in this amendment. I beg to move.
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