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Lord Higgins: My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that there is a case for a deadline? If she does not like this particular deadline, is there not a case for ensuring that the matter does not drag on indefinitely between one department and another? If she does not like this date, does she agree there is a case for a deadline of some kind?

Baroness Hollis of Heigham: My Lords, the noble Lord must accept—I am sure that he does—that we want payments from FAS to be made as soon and as speedily as possible. It may be that we can make payments earlier to some people nearer retirement and be more confident about it than for members of schemes coming in later but only when we have the regulations to bring before your Lordships' House—probably in the spring—will I be in a position to give your Lordships a deadline I am confident of delivering.

I am not trying to be awkward. I cannot do what noble Lords ask. I wish I could but I cannot. As I say, I expect the bulk of the regulations to be brought forward in the spring of next year. At that point we should have some idea of a deadline. If I can give any information to noble Lords before then, through correspondence and so on, I shall be delighted to do so.
 
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Indeed, I suspect that my right honourable friends in the other place will wish to make a Statement to that effect because the matter is of such major importance.

But I cannot do it now and I cannot accept the amendments. I am afraid that whatever your Lordships may do today, they cannot remain on the face of the Bill because they are undeliverable administratively.

Lord Higgins: My Lords, one of the most difficult tasks for Ministers—and, by extension, for the House—on decisions of this kind happens when officials say that something is impossible. I can think of two past examples: when the late Barbara Castle was told that something was impossible, she said go ahead and do it none the less. The thing turned out to be impossible, and it was a total disaster. The other example was when officials told my noble friend Lord Barber, when he was Chancellor, that something was impossible. He said do it none the less, and it turned out to be all right. But it is a fairly high risk strategy.

Lord Lea of Crondall: My Lords, has the noble Lord taken into consideration the fact that my noble friend did not say it was impossible just because the officials said it was but because of what we called in Committee the blank cheque problem? Once you have the regulations and you know that there is a likely number of claimants with regard to the £400 million, you have better leverage when it comes to how much to pay each person. Unless I have got it wrong, that seems a very substantial reason indeed. It is not simply a matter of officials talking about maintaining flexibility. I am not sure that I have heard the noble Lord address what I think is a very strong argument.

Lord Higgins: My Lords, I was not necessarily rejecting the argument. There are official impossibilities and there are other impossibilities. I accept that there can be very real problems with a timescale of this kind. I am not totally persuaded that there is not a case for a deadline of some sort, no matter how far away, to concentrate minds, not least those of officials. But on balance, I am persuaded by the argument, so I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

EU Summit

Baroness Amos: My Lords, I would like to repeat a Statement made in another place by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister.

"With permission, Mr Speaker, I shall make a Statement on the European Council that took place in Brussels on 4 and 5 November. I would like to thank Prime Minister Balkanende and the Dutch Government for their arrangements for the summit, and for the way they have conducted their presidency to date. The Council was inevitably dominated by Iraq, given the presence of Dr Allawi, the Iraqi Prime Minister.
 
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"First, let me express what I know will be the sentiments of the entire House in sending our profound condolences to the families of the Black Watch soldiers killed by a terrorist bomb in Iraq last week, and our sympathy to those soldiers injured yesterday in another terrorist attack. We salute their dedication, professionalism and, above all, sheer and undaunted courage. They are an example to us all, and we can and should be very proud of them.

"Let us also be very clear about the fundamental importance to Britain's security in what the Black Watch and the British Armed Forces in the south of Iraq are doing.

"Defeat of terrorism in Iraq is defeat for this new and virulent form of global terrorism everywhere. A democratic Iraq is the last thing the terrorists want to see. It is precisely for that reason—because victory for the terrorists would damage security round the world, including here in Britain—that we have to hold firm, be resolute and see this through, including in Fallujah.

"The action by allied and Iraqi forces under way in Fallujah would cease now, immediately, if the terrorists and insurgents who are using Fallujah as a base for terrorism would lay down their weapons and agree to participate in the elections. Over the past few months, Prime Minister Allawi has tried to persuade them to do so. They have refused, not because they are fighting a foreign occupation—if the terrorism stopped, American, British and other troops would leave—but because they are fighting democracy, they are fighting to stop democratic elections supervised by the UN and due to take place in January.

"They know that while Fallujah remains outside the UN-endorsed government, they can use it to wreck elections. And why do the terrorists fear elections? Because they know that given the chance to vote for their government, Iraqis would reject the extremism and fanaticism the terrorists represent.

"The powerful speech made by Dr Allawi to the European Council made precisely those points. He appealed for Europe's help. Some promised support of a military nature; others promised only financial support. But all the Council agreed that it was in the interests of global security for Iraqi elections to take place.

"The Council agreed a comprehensive package of EU assistance for Iraq, including a further programme of financial and logistical support for the elections, and the financing for the UN Protection Force. This is on top of 300 million euros for humanitarian and reconstruction support from the EU over the past two years.

"Following the re-election of President Bush, the Council also agreed that a close transatlantic partnership was fundamental to building international peace, security and prosperity; and that we now need to strengthen the alliance, so that we can intensify our work together in addressing the main international threats and challenges of the moment, including regional conflicts, terrorism and WMD.
 
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"The Council heard a presentation from the former Prime Minister of the Netherlands, Wim Kok, on his mid-term review of the Lisbon strategy on European economic competitiveness. He rightly concluded that Europe has to do far more to improve its underlying economic performance if it is to respond to the challenges of Asia and the United States. And he sensibly highlights the importance of completing the single market, developing flexible labour markets and promoting sustainable growth.

"The Council adopted a new five-year work programme of measures in the area of justice and home affairs.

"There are great benefits for the United Kingdom in co-operation with our European partners on these issues. Illegal immigration affects all member states. But the opt-in protocol for Britain, negotiated in Amsterdam in 1997, remains. It is also enshrined in the new constitutional treaty. We have successfully used it over the past five years to opt into new measures on asylum and on combating illegal immigration, and to opt out of measures on legal migration, frontiers and visas. It gives us the right to decide whether to participate in each item of the EU work programme and makes a nonsense of claims that Britain has given up the right to control its own borders. If, of course, we opt in, because we want a particular measure to happen, it is in our interests that in a Europe of 25 and soon 27 or 28 countries, the use of a veto by another country cannot block the measure.

"Finally, the President-designate of the Commission, José Manuel Barroso, briefed us on his proposals for restructuring the new Commission. He has reacted decisively to resolve the dispute with the European Parliament, and I am confident that, as a result, the new Commission will be able to take office soon.

"In summary, the meeting once again underlined the importance to Britain of maintaining both a strong relationship with the United States of America and a strong place in the councils of the European Union. Both partnerships are vital to the British national interest, and it will remain the policy, of this Government at least, to nurture both".

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.


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