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Baroness O'Cathain: My Lords, I shall speak briefly, partly because my voice is about to give out.

This has been a very interesting and thoughtful debate, and I want to thank every person who has contributed. Some feel as strongly as I do about the

17 Nov 2004 : Column 1481

injustice; some feel strongly—rightly—that the Bill must go through. But the object of the Bill, as the Minister said, is to right all the wrongs. Even my amendment does not do that, and nor could it. The problem with the Bill is that it creates a new wrong, and my amendment does not do that—because it would not wreck the Bill.

My amendment is new. In fact, as all noble Lords who took part in the debate in June will know—I see a lot of familiar faces—this new amendment was distilled from that amendment. That amendment was voted on with a free vote only on our side of the House; there was a three-line Whip for the Government and Liberal Democrat Members, but it was still carried in this House.

That amendment was complex and complicated. I listened and mulled over it and introduced this amendment today, at the first opportunity when the Bill came back from the Commons. It is limited to two, but it could be limited to more; I wanted simply to bring out the parallel and put some parameters on it. The provision in the amendment is limited to 12 years; someone has said that is too long, but it could be seven years—it could be anything. The reason why I chose 12 years was that it reflected the long-term commitment of those family members to each other, not just a passing fancy. Above all, my amendment proposes a voluntary scheme. People who are in a caring, sustaining, loving, co-dependent relationship with family members do not have to register, because the proposal is voluntary.

I am sorry, but we have had no commitment to, or timetable for, action. Sadly, I have absolutely no confidence that anything will happen. In order to tell the other place just how we really feel—and how I really feel—about this injustice, I wish to test the opinion of the House.

5.43 p.m.

On Question, Whether the said amendment shall be agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 136; Not-Contents, 251.

Division No. 1

CONTENTS

Ampthill, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Arran, E.
Ashcroft, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Bagri, L.
Bell, L.
Blackwell, L.
Blatch, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Boyce, L.
Bramall, L.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnham, L.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Chester, Bp.
Chorley, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Crathorne, L.
Crawford and Balcarres, E.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Emerton, B.
Erroll, E.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Greenway, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Home, E.
Hooper, B.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Inge, L.
James of Holland Park, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jopling, L.
Kalms, L.
Kimball, L.
Kirkham, L.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Liverpool, E.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Lower Marsh, L.
Moran, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Norfolk, D.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
O'Cathain, B. [Teller]
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Palmer, L. [Teller]
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patten, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Quirk, L.
Rawlings, B.
Reay, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Seccombe, B.
Selsdon, L.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheppard of Didgemere, L.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Southwell, Bp.
Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tebbit, L.
Thatcher, B.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Tombs, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Vinson, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Walpole, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Wolfson, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Adebowale, L.
Alderdice, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alliance, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President of the Council)
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor, V.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Barker, B.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Best, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Borrie, L.
Bowness, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Buscombe, B.
Cameron of Dillington, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carter, L.
Carter of Coles, L.
Chandos, V.
Chelmsford, Bp.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Condon, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Dixon, L.
Drayson, L.
D'Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Dykes, L.
Eatwell, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Flather, B.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Giddens, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Brookwood, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Habgood, L.
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Hattersley, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayman, B.
Henig, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollick, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Inglewood, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Joffe, L.
Jones, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kerr of Kinlochard, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Laming, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leitch, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
McDonagh, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Manchester, Bp.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morgan of Huyton, B.
Murphy, B.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Noakes, B.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Norwich, Bp.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O'Neill of Bengarve, B.
Ouseley, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Parekh, L.
Patel, L.
Paul, L.
Peterborough, Bp.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Radice, L.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Richard, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Robertson of Port Ellen, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Russell-Johnston, L.
St. Albans, Bp.
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich, Bp.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Sewel, L.
Sharman, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sheldon, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Snape, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stern, B.
Strabolgi, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tordoff, L.
Triesman, L.
Truro, Bp.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Vallance of Tummel, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young of Norwood Green, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.

Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.

17 Nov 2004 : Column 1484

On Question, Motion agreed to.

5.56 p.m.


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