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Lord Strathclyde: My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness the Leader of the House for repeating the Statement. The most important announcement was the agreement to pursue accession by Turkey. We on this side have long argued for that. But why is it deferred until 2014? Is it because the EU cannot face up to financial reform and the wholesale changes that will be required to the absurd CAP regime? Or is it distaste for Turkish entry among some of the less enlightened EU partners masquerading as caution? We hope that the sensible agreement on how to handle the Cyprus situation, where Turkey has already shown great responsibility, will be one more step towards a final settlement in the future.
I strongly favour Turkish entry, but can the noble Baroness assure the House that Turkey could not impede potential accession of Armenia to a future EU, given the immense contribution of Armenia and the Armenian diaspora to European civilisation?
I welcome confirmation of progress with Bulgaria and Romania. Will the noble Baroness join me in congratulating former King Simeon of Bulgaria on his skilful handling of these matters?
On Croatia, can she say whether the Government are satisfied with the treatment of the Serb minority and Serb exiles by Croatia?
On negotiations in general, there is a phrase in paragraph 23 of the Presidency Conclusions, which the noble Baroness knows I read carefully, saying that negotiations must take into account "the evolving acquis". Does "evolving acquis" include the draft EU constitution? If so, on what grounds can negotiations legally take that into account prior to ratification of the treaty? And does not the prospect of Turkish membership anyway underline the danger of signing and sealing a new constitution when the adherence of this huge new member state is bound to require substantial further changes in the rules and governance of the Union? Is that not what President Giscard d'Estaing, among others, has warned and is that also not plain common sense?
On ratification, did the Prime Minister discuss a date for an EU referendum with other EU leaders? If so, can the noble Baroness share that date with us? She might also be able to advise us when we will see a ratification Bill. From time to time, Ministers ask what support we have for questioning whether the proposed
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constitution is good for Europe. Our answer is "the people". We should just wait and see and it will soon become clear what the peoples of Europe's member states, including this one, really think about changing their constitutions to suit the new order being imposed on them. That will show where the real support for our viewpoint lies. Some may agree but we can be pretty sure that the people of the UK will not.
So that is the support we havenot of dedicated integrationists, not of dreamers about Europe as a superpower, not of visceral anti-Americans, but of ordinary citizens in their millions who want a Europe that is free and built on nation states and who treasure our constitution and reject its violation by this Government and by remote ideologues who may end up doing more harm than good to the best kind of European cause.
The summit agreed to lift the arms embargo on China. Perhaps the Leader of the House can tell the House whether a Labour Government would support the sale of arms to China by the UK arms industry.
On Africa, was French military action on Côte d'Ivoire discussed or endorsed by the EU? On Zimbabwe, yet again there was a bitterly disappointing failure to agree any action in regard to the utterly vile Mugabe regime. Perhaps I may ask the noble Baroness againbecause she has shown continual deep concern for suffering in Africa which is widely respectedwhether she asked the Prime Minister to raise that issue. If she did, did he raise it? If he did, why is nothing said about it in the conclusions?
The noble Baroness says that African nations do not always welcome our intervention, but has she seen the declaration of the EU presidency on 15 December calling on Liberia to revise its electoral law to secure fair elections? Apparently it is good for Liberia for the EU to make demands on democratic processes but not, it seems, for Zimbabwe. Why not?
Finally, with Christmas approachingwhen I hope that the noble Baroness and all noble Lords will enjoy a peaceful holidaywill she agree that no programme must ever be allowed to undermine the ability of Christians in schools and communities to affirm Christian traditions, or indeed to limit the freedom of any other great religious community to speak out freely without fear or favour to assert its doctrines and to proclaim its identity?
Lord McNally: My Lords, does the Minister agree that the key statement in the report by the Prime Minister is the description of,
On almost every line of the Statement there are illustrations of the fact that Europe acting together can have a massive beneficial impact on some of the most difficult, dangerous and intractable problems facing our world. Surely it is within that context that we should look at developments in the European Union and at any dangers or threats to the European Union playing that kind of constructive role in the world.
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As the Prime Minister obviously enjoyed himself at the summit and came back in very fine fettle, judging by the way in which he wiped the floor with the Leader of the Opposition in another place, perhaps I may recommend that he keep up this bounce and self-confidence about Europe and take it to the British people. Some of the ominous threats or wild claims about speaking for the British people made by the Official Opposition would be seen as a sham if the Prime Minister were to show
Lord McNally: Yes, my Lords, we will bring it on. We see the real case for Europe being the kind of progress that was illustrated at this summit.
Of course the opening of a dialogue with Turkey is a difficult and quite long process, but it is an entirely welcome one in building that bridge with the Islamic world. I shall make only one comment on that. I hope that both Greece and Cyprus, whose own admission to the European family required a certain confidence and trust by the European Union at the time of their accession, do not now use their position inside the EU as a kind of veto on Turkey's membership. I think that both Greece and Cyprus owe it to Europe to show similar magnanimity and imagination in their approach to settling the Cyprus question as has been shown in the past by Europe towards them.
On European reform, are preparations already under way so that the British presidency itself is a presidency that tackles some of the needed reforms in Europe, not from the position of the Conservative Party, which is consistently harping on it to do damage to Europe, but from the position that we taketo strengthen Europe and its position with the British people?
I urge the Minister on another point. In looking east, as it is necessary to do in this long process with Turkey and with Bulgaria and Romania, due concern should be taken also with the southern Mediterranean and the Maghreb and with other areas that also look for closer co-operation with the EU.
I have only one point on the elections in Ukraine and Iraq. Will the proposed observers be EU observers, or will it be up to each national government to decide how they contribute their observers to these elections?
Finally, it is rumoured that the Prime Minister may shortly be going to the Middle East. We on these Benches would wish him God's speed on that visit. The hope is that he will use the authority of the European Union to emphasise to Palestinians, to Israelis and to the Americans that there is a European dimension to any lasting peace in the Middle East, and that by playing our active part within the EU to make that contribution, we will also make a very positive contribution to the success of any peace progress that has got under way.
I join the Leader of the Conservative Party in wishing Members opposite a happy Christmas. But I do think that this is one of the reports back from Europe that should put a spring in the step of all of us
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who believe that Britain's future is at the heart of Europe and that Europe's future is in bringing better peace to the world.
Baroness Amos: My Lords, I thank both noble Lords for their comments and questions. I shall try to deal with the specific issues that have been raised.
The noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, specifically asked why it will take so long once we have begun the negotiations with Turkey. As he will know, a long-term reform process is underway in Turkey. It has made substantial progress in the past two years, and that reform process will continue in the years of the negotiating process.
On the specific point on Armenia, as the noble Lord knows, the agreement at the weekend was to begin accession negotiations with Turkey. As we have stressed, that will probably be a lengthy set of discussions during which Turkey's impact on the European Union will be explored, including its attitude to other countries that are currently in the EU and possibly also to candidates for future membership. The noble Lord asked about the length of the negotiations and the issue of Armenia, but the length of the negotiations will allow an opportunity to discuss those issues.
The noble Lord knows that there is a ratification process for the draft EU constitution and that individual countries will then take it through their national parliaments or have a referendum. That depends entirely on the legal context within each country. As he knows, a Bill will of course be brought before our Parliament. On the question of when, that will be resolved over a period of time, as the noble Lord knows.
On China, the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, said that he had read the conclusion very carefully. In relation to China it states that the European Council,
The council did not lift the embargo. The Council made it clear that the result of any decision should not be an increase of arms exports from EU member states to China, in terms of quantity or quality. As the noble Lord knows, the Council also highlighted a desire to see progress on human rights in China.
On Zimbabwe, which we have discussed many times across this Dispatch Box, the noble Lord knows that we have an EU sanctions regime, which includes the movement of people within the ruling ZANU-PF party to the European Union. We would not have had that without international efforts nor without efforts within the European Union. I am rather surprised that the noble Lord says that the European Union has made no progress and has not discussed Zimbabwe. Indeed, the European Union has called for the elections in March next year to be free and fair. There have been discussions not only at European Union level, but also with the UN and with southern African partners. The noble Lord may know that the Southern African Development Community has endorsed a clear set of regulations on elections that we would like to see applied to Zimbabwe.
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I am quite happy to write to the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, setting out all those issues. It proves to me that the noble Lord is not aware of the detail of all of the work that is ongoing at present.
In regard to Christmas, this Government have always made it clear that we are in favour of such opportunities, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde. Like everyone else, I wish the noble Lord a very happy Christmas.
The noble Lord, Lord McNally, started by outlining the importance of acting together. I entirely endorse that point. We would not have seen what happened with the peace-keeping force in the DRC, for example, which was led by the French and to which we contributed, were it not for the European Union acting together. We have the largest peace-keeping force in Bosnia. The positive approach taken by the European Union in Ukraine is an important element of that. The context described by the noble Lord is quite right.
On EU reform, of course we have begun planning for our presidency. The noble Lord may know that, because of the way in which the presidencies now work, planning starts somewhat in advance. There is an attempt to resolve issues of concern to the Union overall in a presidency, but next year, for example, an important dimension of what happens at the European Union level throughout the year will be ensuring some kind of follow through from the Luxembourg presidency to our presidency.
The noble Lord is right about the importance of closer co-operation with southern Mediterranean countries and the Magreb. The presidency conclusions say,
"The European Council noted with satisfaction the progress made within the framework of the European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP). A first series of Action Plans jointly prepared with Jordan, Morocco, Tunisia, Moldova, Ukraine, Israel and Palestinian Authority were successfully finalised".
That is an important element of the programme.
As regards observation of the election in Ukraine, my understanding is that the OECD will take overall responsibility for that, but there will be a doubling of the British observers to that mission. That was announced by my noble friend.
On the Middle East peace process, of course, we are working positively to bring about a resolution. The noble Lord is well aware of that. I believe that he will understand if, across the Dispatch Box, I do not say any more about the Prime Minister's travel plans. He will continue to work tirelessly to ensure that the process that was started so long ago reaches a successful conclusion.
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