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Lord Elton: My Lords, perhaps I may ask a layman's question. It is clear that any government must have power to detain those who have committed crimes and to charge them when they are in their territory and that time must be available for them to decide whether to bring charges. That, I think, is agreed. However, what is puzzling is the convention under which a foreign government, ally or not, are able to detain without charge a citizen of this country for an indefinite period—until it is concluded by the noble and learned Lord's own great exertions, for which we are grateful.
Is the result of this sorry episode going to be an international convention under which an international law is established which determines when a country may and may not detain a foreign national?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, as a result of many of the episodes that have taken place, I cannot say whether any of the bright and expert minds involved in international law will consider that there is good reason to come together and talk about how the law might be brought up to date, amended and so forth. However, I note the point made by the noble Lord.
Lord Borrie: My Lords, to what extent have Her Majesty's Government been given explanations by the United States authorities about the conditions in which the total of nine British people have been held—explanations as to what led to the remaining four being held for a longer period than the original five, and questions of that sort? In so far as explanations have been given by the United States authorities to our Government, will there be a point in time when it is possible to give such explanations to the public in this country?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, if there are concerns about the conditions in which British nationals are being held, it has always been the Government's position to raise those matters with the foreign government or power that is holding them. Allegations have certainly been made in relation to one of these people, and that matter has been raised. In addition, British consular officials have visited on nine occasions to consider the welfare of the men
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involved. These are difficult conditions and one therefore has to be careful about comparison, but it is fair to say that the Government have done more than any other government to look to the welfare of their nationals. So far as the noble Lord's first question is concerned, we have been concerned to ensure that the conditions are satisfactory and have raised such issues as seem appropriate to us.
In answer to the noble Lord's second, broader question, many questions have arisen in the course of the negotiations and those have informed the discussions that have taken place. I can add that each time a consular visit has taken place, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has made a statement and reported to Parliament, so Parliament has also been kept fully informed of these matters.
Lord Avebury: My Lords, the noble and learned Lord said that all consular involvement would cease the moment the detainees were released. Does that mean that no further assistance will be given to any of them in pursuing their remedies against the authorities in Guantanamo Bay for any ill treatment that they may have received there?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, that is a different matter from that to which I referred when I talked about consular activity in relation to people present in another country. If they require assistance, it will be a matter for individuals to make representations to the Government. I am sure that all those representations will be studied very carefully and considered on their merits.
The Lord Bishop of Worcester: My Lords, I add my words to those who have congratulated the noble and learned Lord on what is, in part, a very personal achievement but also on the Government's achievement in bringing about such very good news. I also appreciate the way in which he expressed, in very stark and simple terms, the alternatives available in relation to the people held at Guantanamo Bay.
However, I ask him to reflect on the last paragraph of the Foreign Secretary's Statement. It seems to me that the Statement ends on a note of robust determination to defend "these rights" against terrorism—what he calls the right,
In combating terrorism, will the Minister confirm that the Government agree that it is essential that we do not give terrorists the power to cause us to depart in any way from our standards governing the rule of law and the rights of individuals to due process and fair trial?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, throughout this process the Government have sought to meet the twin objectives of protecting the United Kingdom and its citizens from international terrorism while playing their role on behalf of British citizens detained abroad, and indeed our commitment to the rule of law and the principles that it contains. Some might say that it is the challenge of
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democracies today to meet the very important objective of protecting citizens against potentially the most atrocious outrages while at the same time defending the values that the Government continue to hold dear.
Lord Acton: My Lords, in answer to my noble friend Lord Borrie, my noble and learned friend the Attorney-General said that certain matters had been raised with the United States Administration. Were satisfactory answers received?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, it is not our practice to give blow-by-blow accounts of any discussions with foreign governments. I am very grateful to the number of noble Lords who have so far spoken unanimously in welcoming the development. The satisfactory answer that we have had is that we have reached a resolution of this problem on which both countries have been able to agree. That is, indeed, a satisfactory answer.
Lord Mackay of Clashfern: My Lords, I would like to add my voice to what has been said in appreciation of the work of the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General and also of his colleagues in the Government in securing this outcome. I should particularly like to say how much I appreciate the discretion with which the Attorney-General spoke as these discussions went ahead. It is easy to envisage that someone incensed about what was going on could have used language that in the end would have made resolution more difficult than it has been.
I would also ask the noble and learned Lord to confirm what I understood him to say in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart. Can he confirm that the handing over by the United States of the British nationals to the United Kingdom is unconditional?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, I can confirm that. As I said, the Statement makes it clear that we must take every practical step to protect national security and the citizens of this country. We shall do that in accordance with the law of the United Kingdom, and I am sure that the United States are aware of the content of that law. I note with appreciation what the noble and learned Lord said, particularly about the Government as a whole.
The Earl of Sandwich: My Lords, has the noble and learned Lord detected any change in the reporting restrictions at Guantanamo Bay, which are exceptional? In addition, did he notice the article featured in the Financial Times recently, which shows that there may be some window of change?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, I am afraid that I cannot give the noble Earl any information on that.
The Duke of Montrose: My Lords, I thought that I had understood my noble friend Lord Howell of Guildford to ask whether the Government are aware of the evidence being held against these men. First, is
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the Minister satisfied that it has all been passed on to the Government; and, secondly, and will be passed on to the police?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, we have very good bilateral relations with the United States, as we have with other countries, in relation to matters of justice. I have no doubt at all that our law enforcement authorities will be in a position to make the judgments that they need to make, informed by information from their counterparts in the United States.
Lord Ackner: My Lords, the noble and learned Attorney-General has very rightly referred to the obligation to take every practical step to protect the citizens of this country from terrorist attacks. With particular reference to what is said to occur in Belmarsh Prison, could he tell us what steps other major European countries, such as Germany, France, Italy and Spain, take to provide the same protection?
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, standing at the Dispatch Box, I cannot give a detailed reply along those lines. However, I shall do my best to provide a Written Answer to the noble and learned Lord and will place a copy in the Library of the House.
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