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Baroness Amos: My Lords, I totally share the disappointment expressed by the noble Lords, Lord Glentoran and Lord Smith of Clifton, about the process.

On the specific questions, let me say to the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, that I totally agree that Sinn Fein and the IRA are inextricably linked. The Taoiseach is right to point that out, as this Government have done consistently. As the chief constable said, it is too early to establish exact details, but it is clear that the activities of the IRA undermined the political negotiations which took place before Christmas.

In this process, we have made it absolutely clear that criminality must be eradicated. There is no place for terrorists within the Northern Ireland Government. That was the Government's position and it remains their position. It is absolutely clear that the political institutions of the agreement will not function while criminality continues. It is our view that the onus is on republicanism to find a solution by bringing a definitive end to all its illegal activities.

The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, said that it is important to look for another way forward. Of course we need to talk to the parties. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland is already going through that process. We need to talk to our colleagues in the Irish Government.

As regards the specific issue of parliamentary allowances and Sinn Fein MPs, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has made it absolutely clear that we shall be considering a range of possibilities in the coming days. We need to consider the most effective way of bringing pressure to bear on the republican movement to ensure that it makes a definitive break with violence. A whole range of options is being looked at. I know that it is an issue to which we shall return and debate not only in the Chamber, but also I hope with my right honourable friend the Secretary of State in a more informal atmosphere.

The question of accountability was also raised by the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton. I totally recognise the concerns which were raised across the Chamber. As noble Lords know, proposals have been made by the SDLP and the DUP which suggested a committee of the Assembly. The noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton, spoke about the importance of pre-legislative scrutiny. We will be looking at all of these proposals because I entirely agree that the present situation as regards the accountability of direct-rule Ministers needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.
 
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As regards the issue of licensed prisoners and their recall if they are connected with the robbery—a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran—I know that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland would not hesitate to use the powers that he has to suspend the licence of any ex-prisoner involved if he is satisfied that he has broken, or is likely to break, any licence conditions. That has always been the position and it continues to be so.

Regarding the continued exemptions for Northern Ireland political parties from the normal rules on publishing their accounts and receiving foreign donations, I hear very clearly what has been said by the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, and the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton, who has written to me on the point. Noble Lords know that we intend to move away from the current exemptions. We have been discussing new arrangements with the Northern Ireland parties, the Irish Government and the Electoral Commission. Legitimate concerns have been raised about intimidation and the need for Irish citizens to be able to donate to nationalist parties. I indicated that we would be seeking an extension of the current exemption. I hear the concerns expressed in the Chamber about this issue. I shall be talking to my right honourable friend about it and will report back to noble Lords as soon as I can.

The noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton, said that he was not clear about the purpose of the statement made by the chief constable and that it was without precedent. It is not without precedent in Northern Ireland, but it is in England and Wales. There is always a huge amount of pressure in Northern Ireland as regards attribution. Noble Lords will remember, for example, Tohill last February. When he made his statement the chief constable made it absolutely clear that speculation on the matter was beginning to interfere with the investigation and he felt that the time was right to make the attribution. But I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton, that this is not a substitute for arrests. The investigation is in hand involving more than 40 officers working around the clock.

On the final point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton, as regards allowances to the Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly, I can tell him that we shall be looking at it in the very near future.

Lord Rogan: My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for repeating the Statement. This was not a victimless crime. Families were intimidated, families were kidnapped and families were terrorised. I also send out tonight my sympathies from this House and hope that these families may rebuild their lives quickly.

The noble Baroness said that her disappointment in this escapade is nothing compared with the disappointment of the people of Northern Ireland. I could not agree more. But is not the Minister also aware that this is the latest in a long line of links between Sinn Fein/IRA and criminality that the people of Northern Ireland have had to endure over many years?
 
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The Northern Bank robbery follows the break-in at Castlereagh police station, the Stormont spy-ring, the well known activities of the Colombian three with the FARC rebels, not to mention the nightly punishment beatings and continued violence, all of which were, and continue to be, sanctioned and carried out by IRA/Sinn Fein personnel. Do not the Government understand that the confidence of the people of Northern Ireland, already at breaking point, as a result of this latest heist, has been absolutely and completely shattered? If confidence in Sinn Fein/IRA is in tatters then this Government do not fare much better in the eyes of the Northern Ireland people. Without firm and decisive action against Sinn Fein/IRA, this Statement tonight will be seen as little more than an empty, meaningless gesture.

The Government must show strength and their willingness to stand up against terrorists and criminals. Such people simply cannot be allowed to continue to be the driving force in Northern Ireland's political agenda. The driving seat should be reserved for democratic parties only.

I am pleased to hear tonight that, perhaps as an indication of the Government's willingness to take action, they will seriously consider, where the evidence suggests that it is necessary, recalling those republican prisoners currently out on licence who have been involved in criminal and terrorist activities.

On a final note, the noble Baroness mentioned that the Government were looking at the regulation of donations to political parties. While we all welcome the transparency of donations, is such an idea not actually counter-productive? Sinn Fein does not need political donations, it robs banks!

Baroness Amos: My Lords, perhaps I may make three points in response to the noble Lord, Lord Rogan. The Government will continue to work for a peaceful outcome in Northern Ireland. We will continue to work for an inclusive process. I also agree with the noble Lord that we must look at the areas where action can be taken. We have made it absolutely clear that there is no room for criminality in the political process. That remains our position and we will work very hard to find the best mechanisms at our disposal to take action as regards what has happened.

Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I must declare an interest, not in the robbery, but as a member of the policing board in Northern Ireland. In saying that, I should like to defend the police to a certain extent against some of the barracking they have had. It is amazing that, knowing how forensically aware the terrorists are and how clever and thorough they are at covering their tracks, the chief constable has been able to say what he said and that is to his credit.

Paragraph 12 of the Statement refers to required responses from Sinn Fein and the Provisional IRA. We have to get down to the practical problem. We should forget about the consequences for one minute, but consider what is happening. What are the responses now that the Government require? We want to know what they are in detail: most certainly
 
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Sinn Fein will want to know to see how to get round them. We need to know those responses now. We need to know the timescale of those responses. We need to know for how long Sinn Fein/IRA have to run clean before we are asked to believe them again. What or where will there be verification of what they say because it is quite clear that the verification that the Government were standing by until very recently is not enough and it is lacking?

If you are dealing with criminals such as these and totally untrustworthy, dare I say, liars, there is only one form of verification that can apply—the intelligence from behind them. I am well aware, and so are many others in your Lordships' House, that the intelligence-gathering effort has been greatly decreased against the very echelons of the people who committed this crime—and that includes against the Sinn Fein leadership. No one should be afraid of the intelligence services listening in or doing whatever if they have nothing to hide. But we have seen a large reduction in intelligence gathering. I am not saying that it would have prevented this crime—the perpetrators have had practice for this in Strabane, kidnapping people and so on—but not having that reduction might have contributed much to preventing it.

Part of that reduction is in the total number of patrols in Northern Ireland. The military are being told, "You are not to patrol". The police are being told, "You have got to do it on your own and call in the military only when necessary". Intelligence is not just what one person hears over a mobile phone. Intelligence is gathered from grass roots leading up to that. It is association; it is people being seen with other people; it is people carrying out "reccies" of buildings and so on.

My question to the Government is, what are they going to do about it? It is no good saying that these statesmen are their friends and they will not look in their back yard. It is not good enough for us.

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