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Baroness Morris of Bolton moved Amendment No. 12:
( ) the behaviour of pupils and levels of discipline in those schools"
The noble Baroness said: Amendments Nos. 12 and 31 relating to England and Amendments Nos. 79 and 83 relating to Wales would introduce a new category to the inspection regime that the chief inspector would report upon and would be expected to keep the Secretary of State informed about; namely, the behaviour of pupils and levels of discipline in each school.
The rationale behind the amendments is evident and relatively straightforward. In recent years we have seen a very real and genuine concern about the growing levels of indiscipline and classroom violence in our schools. Such behaviour is simply unacceptable. Pupils have the right to expect to be taught in an environment free from intimidation and fear while our hard-working teachers deserve the right to get on with their crucial jobs without a similar threat. Indeed, it is one of the key worries consistently identified by teachers, and one of the main reasons— alongside red tape—why they leave the profession.
The Times Educational Supplement reported last year that there were over 17,000 expulsions in just one term in 2003. That figure, which might not even reveal the true extent of the problem, is both shocking and disturbing. Furthermore, we know that school standards and behaviour in the classroom are closely linked. Children learn best in a safe, secure and structured environment. They cannot learn in classrooms where loutish behaviour and disrespect for others is the norm.
Establishing such a category would make it possible for parents to identify which of their local schools had concerns relating to problems of discipline. It would additionally allow the relevant education authorities to identify those schools particularly affected and target resources accordingly. At present, there is no category within the inspection regime that deals specifically with concerns over school discipline. As concerns and problems evolve, so must the inspection regime.
The vast majority of parents would support the amendments, and I hope that the Minister will lend his weight to them. I beg to move.
Baroness Perry of Southwark: My name is down in support of Amendment No. 32 and I support Amendment No. 12 as well.
It seems to me that there is a double layer with regard to what we mean by discipline in schools. It concerns what happens in the general areas of the school—the corridors, the playground, the cloakrooms—and what happens inside the classrooms. Although one issue very much overlaps with the other and affects it, they are different as far as inspection is concerned.
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The general areas of the school, where people of all age groups and very often both genders mix and mingle, reflect the school's level of expectation towards pupils' behaviour. It is perfectly true that in recent years there has been a degeneration of behaviour in the parts of the school outside the classroom which has begun increasingly to affect what is able to happen in terms of teaching and learning inside the classroom. That is very largely a failure of the expectations at school management level, and it knocks on to the inspection requirements.
I have seen many schools in very deprived and difficult areas whose neighbours have huge discipline problems which nevertheless have well behaved, well ordered children who are simply meeting the expectations implicit in the way that the school is run. They are treated with respect and they are expected to treat each other and their teachers with equal respect.
I do not think that discipline has anything to do with the old-fashioned cane, nor with the use of sarcasm or punitive measures. It has much more to do with the level of expectation of the way in which people behave towards each other.
Inside the classroom there are different issues. The reason that discipline breaks down in some classrooms and very little learning takes place—because if children are not disciplined, quiet or engaged, not much learning will take place—has much more to do with the quality of the teaching. I have seen schools in which the behaviour outside the classroom was pretty bad—although, as I said, it knocks on eventually into the classrooms—but where individual teachers still had perfectly "well disciplined" children and well ordered learning. That was because their teaching was interesting and exciting; it engaged pupils and made them want to learn. Consequently, they were not bored and finding other things to do besides pay attention, if I can put it in old-fashioned terms.
I believe that we are losing sight of what discipline is about, either because we are frightened of the word because it sounds like "bring back the cane" or something like that—I hope it is apparent that I am not saying so—or because we are losing the central core of what disciplined learning is about, which is the quality of the teaching. If it is exciting and engages the young people; if it makes them want to continue learning so that they do not even notice that they are behaving well because they are concentrating on what they are doing, then that is the ideal to which good teaching strives. Thank goodness there are thousands of classrooms in this country where that kind of teaching and learning still goes on. I strongly support this as an element in the package of inspection.
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood: Many good reasons have already been given for this amendment. Perhaps I may underline one which has been alluded to. In the matter of parental choice, which the Government properly hold dear, one of the key criteria operated by most parents is the quality of discipline in the school for all the reasons that we have just heard. I reckon that it rates virtually as highly as academic standards
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when parents sit down wondering where there children will go. I believe that that is an important reason for supporting this amendment.
Lord Dearing: I am glad that this issue has arisen in the debate. I referred to the great importance of behaviour at Second Reading. I thought about tabling amendments because it is such an important issue. I did not do so for two reasons. The first is that I was satisfied that the Government are taking it seriously in spending £470 million over the past three years, as I recall the figure. Secondly, I went through the Ofsted reports to see if it was taking this seriously. I noticed that there have been three special reports on behaviour in schools since 1999. I went through the last general Ofsted report for the latest year and saw that there were specific paragraphs on behaviour in primary and secondary schools. I thought that people are caring about the issue, looking at it and reporting on it.
Having said that, and having decided not to table amendments, despite the findings of Ofsted, I am not satisfied that there is not a problem. If I recall Ofsted's findings, it said that in almost all primary schools there is not a problem. I believe it said that in nine out of 10 schools it was good. As regards secondary schools, it found that behaviour was satisfactory and that in approaching three-quarters it was good.
However, I recall from the Government's recent five-year strategy that they themselves say that there is low-level disruption in all schools. It states at page 62 that,
The five-year strategy also stated on the same page that,
But if Ofsted is saying that it is only good in approaching three-quarters of the secondary schools, there is a big problem. The problem of violence is known. I also saw the quote from the TES of 17,000 pupils being suspended. I was so shocked that I could not believe it, but I am now reassured that it must be true for the noble Baroness to quote it.
In the Commons debate reference was made to an article in the Guardian which stated that 31 per cent of teachers leaving the profession quoted behaviour as the reason. I am clear that the Government are taking the matter seriously and that Ofsted is looking into it, but I have a sneaking little worry that the standards that Ofsted regards as satisfactory, or good, may not be sufficiently demanding for the good of education in our children's schools.
I leave the Minister with a question. In judging what is good in behaviour, to what extent has Ofsted looked at what is considered good in other countries?
Baroness Howe of Idlicote: I support this amendment. Whether it needs to be included on the face of the Bill is neither here nor there. But the issue we are all addressing is vitally important. If we know, according to Ofsted, that 90 per cent of schools have
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satisfactory standards of behaviour, how many are represented by the 10 per cent which is not covered? How appalling is the likely effect of that on their career prospects as they develop into full adult life?
I regard this matter from the point of view of what the Government are trying to achieve—and I think they are trying to achieve a school where there is the kind of respect for one another that delivers what we are talking about. But can the Minister tell us where in this group of subsections that area is covered, because I honestly cannot see it? It is one reason why something more specific should be included. There is little doubt that matters such as violence and bullying can completely take over the ethos of a school. It is in those areas that we need to ensure that any inspection will take a very firm view in reporting on the changes that need to take place.
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