---

Lord Lucas: I am encouraged by what the noble Lord has said. Nonetheless, he has described a process of internal self-evaluation on the lines that Ofsted requires of schools, and quite right too. I am delighted that Ofsted is doing that as well as taking a critical look at itself by commissioning research into what it does and how well it does it. That is the ordinary process of a healthy organisation, but there also needs to be an element of critical, external—uncommissioned by Ofsted—evaluation. Commissioning an evaluation of yourself always tends to produce positive results, because people who operate in that kind of business want to be commissioned by other people. If you get a reputation for telling people in public that they are useless, you tend not to be commissioned by other people to do similar work.

It is rather like the old, independent schools inspection system before it became slightly sharper. Everything used to be wonderful, rosy and beautiful because they were all doing it to themselves and it was a boost to the whole system. We need to get away from that. There needs to be a clear level of external evaluation by Ofsted of what is going on.

I will read what the Minister has said together with the references. If I still want to raise any matter, I will come back to him on Report. However, I would like some help from him in respect of three matters. First, has Ofsted ever done a reconciliation of its evaluation of schools with the evaluations produced by the value added measures used by the Government, or indeed by the University of Durham? Secondly, can the Minister obtain for me the specification for the data that Ofsted collected under the old regime on each school and the data that it proposes to collect under the new regime? That would be immensely helpful in assisting me to get
 
11 Jan 2005 : Column 242
 
a feeling for the data that will actually be in place to support judgments under both the new and old regimes. Given that—I am grateful for the nod of the head—I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Baroness Morris of Bolton moved Amendment No. 19:

Page 3, line 1, leave out "may" and insert "shall"

The noble Baroness said: Amendment No. 19 in respect of England and Amendment No. 80 in respect of Wales are designed to ensure that the chief inspector in each respective country does indeed publish either the annual report or any other report that he sends to the Secretary of State, or in the case of Wales to the Assembly.

As the Bill currently stands, there appears to be a degree of uncertainty around the word "may". That gives the impression that the relevant chief inspector can choose whether or not to publish the document—a situation that is open to possible misinterpretation.

These amendments would remove any element of doubt and would ensure that all documents are published and are available for public consumption, thus once again bringing greater transparency and openness to the work of the chief inspector. I beg to move.

Lord Filkin: Amendment No. 19 would require the chief inspector to publish annual and other reports that he makes to the Secretary of State. The amendment would remove the current discretion that the chief inspector has, and has had since the beginning, to decide whether to publish reports to the Secretary of State.

It is important to recognise that the chief inspector already publishes the vast majority of reports. However, to require him to publish in all cases risks making public information that is sensitive, including that which identifies individuals. We think that it is appropriate that the chief inspector should retain this discretion whether to publish the reports that he makes to the Secretary of State. It is important that, in exercising his functions, the chief inspector should be able to give the Secretary of State frank advice and report to him without having to publish all the reports that he makes.

In addition, it is important to emphasise that in Clauses 13 and 15 the Bill makes detailed provision forth distribution of reports of school inspections to ensure that the appropriate persons, and importantly parents, receive a copy of inspection reports. Furthermore, Clause 10 provides that the chief inspector may publish such inspection reports.

The current arrangements ensure that there is public access to a wide range of inspection evidence, including electronic information. Ofsted's is one of the most frequently visited websites, attracting 150 million hits per year. The current arrangements give the chief inspector suitable flexibility while ensuring that a wealth of information is made available to the public.
 
11 Jan 2005 : Column 243
 

In Wales, Amendment No. 80 would have a similar effect on Clause 20, requiring the chief inspector to make an annual report to the Assembly and requiring the Assembly to publish such reports. It also provides powers for the chief inspector to make and publish other reports on any matter within her remit. It therefore seems that, as with Amendment No. 19, the amendment to Clause 20, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, and the noble Lord, Lord Roberts, is to require the chief inspector to publish all reports made under the provisions of Clause 20.

The ability to inspect and report freely on any matter within the remit of the chief inspector is central to the drive to improve the quality of education and standards achieved by learners. The publication of reports ensures that findings are made widely available to both support school improvement and add to the evidence base that informs the development of policy.

It is right, therefore, that in principle inspection reports should be published and made widely available, and this is the case with respect to the vast majority, including school inspections and advice provided by the chief inspector to the Assembly. However, there are instances where it is the responsibility of others to publish reports made by the chief inspector. For example, it is the Assembly's statutory responsibility to publish the chief inspector's annual report, as required by the School Inspections Act.

While accepting the principle that inspection reports should be published, there has to be a degree of flexibility to acknowledge the responsibilities for publication that in some instances fall to others. It would not, therefore, be appropriate to require the chief inspector to publish all reports as proposed. However, the expectation is that the vast majority should be, except for the qualifications I have given. I hope that is helpful.

Baroness Morris of Bolton: I thank the Minister for that reply. I shall reflect on what he said. I shall talk to people about this and may come back to it. For the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Baroness Morris of Bolton moved Amendment No. 20:

Page 3, line 2, leave out "in such a manner as he considers appropriate" and insert "both electronically and by other means"

The noble Baroness said: As with the previous amendments, Amendment No. 20 in relation to England and Amendment No. 81 in relation to Wales would have a similar effect on either side of the border. They would remove the seemingly discretionary powers, yet again, of the respective chief inspector to publish—if, as we have seen in my previous set of amendments, he publishes the reports at all—in a fashion and manner of his choosing.

Instead, the intent of the amendments would be to compel the chief inspector to publish all documents sent either to the Secretary of State or the Assembly both electronically and in hard copy, once again aiding the process of transparency and openness.
 
11 Jan 2005 : Column 244
 

Now that we live in the age of the Freedom of Information Act, such information that would be passed from chief inspector to Secretary of State is liable to be requested by any individual. Therefore, by opening up this process, not only are we saving the staff of the relevant departments a significant amount of time as the requests start to arrive but, most important of all, we are saving the taxpayer a considerable amount of money.

Furthermore, what could the chief inspector possibly have to hide that could not be displayed either on the Ofsted website or in hard copy in an Ofsted office? I beg to move.

Lord Filkin: I shall seek to be brief in replying to Amendments Nos. 20 and 81 respectively. The Bill states that the relevant chief inspector may arrange for the publication of annual and other reports in such a manner as they consider appropriate. The amendments would have the effect that such publications should be made available both by electronic and other means.

Clause 10(2) in relation to England and Clause 28(2) in relation to Wales also provide that the publication of annual and other reports to the Secretary of State may be by electronic means.

The current arrangements ensure that there is public access to a wide range of inspection evidence, including electronic information. Ofsted's website is one of the most frequently visited government websites, attracting some 150 million hits a year, as I have signalled. If the noble Baroness intends that hard copy should be provided on every occasion, this would significantly add to the cost to the taxpayer. It would be difficult to predict how many copies of each would be published, and publishing large numbers could lead to waste.

There is no evidence that the public wants the chief inspectors to make more reports available in hard copy. However, there is evidence that the website is working. It is a very effective vehicle and must continue to be promoted. The current arrangements give the chief inspector suitable flexibility while ensuring that a wealth of information is made available to the public.

Similar arguments apply to Wales. The system that has been used in Wales for some time has worked well. It provides a good use of resources and there would be little added value in removing the chief inspector's current discretion by requiring the publication of all reports both electronically and by other means.

It is important that both inspectors recognise that these are public reports; they are reports to which the public have a right of access. In many situations a website is clearly the best way. There will be times when, for a variety of reasons, the public will not have access unless there is a hard copy. That discretion must be used intelligently and flexibly, which goes to the heart of what the inspector is there for.
 
11 Jan 2005 : Column 245
 

---