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House of Lords
Tuesday, 25 January 2005.
The House met at half-past two of the clock: The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Manchester.
The Earl of Glasgow, having received a Writ of Summons in accordance with Standing Order 10 (Hereditary Peers: by-elections) following the death of the Earl Russell—took the Oath.
Army Uniforms
Lord Hoyle asked Her Majesty's Government:
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Bach): My Lords, under the EU public procurement regulations, we may only consider the award criteria directly relevant to the nature of the items or services to be supplied in order to apply the principles of "most economically advantageous tender".
The published award criteria, in accordance with the public procurement regulations, for the recent cut and sewn garments contract, which includes combat uniforms for the Army, were technical compliance, cost of acquisition, issues relating to the contractor's ability to meet our partnering approach, and delivery.
Lord Hoyle: My Lords, have any of the camouflage uniforms been delivered to this country? Indeed, has any cloth been delivered to this country? Despite what my noble friend has said, will he reconsider the placing of the contract? It has gone to an ex-Red Army factory in China, which has poor labour conditions and is lacking when it comes to health and safety, at the expense of jobs in the north-west with a company that, as recently as Iraq, has been recommended for delivering on time and to schedule?
Lord Bach: My Lords, the cut and sewn contract, which has been looked at very carefully, was let after a fair and open competition against the published criteria. Cooneen Watts & Stone Limited, a UK company based in Northern Ireland, was the clear winner against these criteria. There have been four tests of the fabric from which the garments were made, which found that it was satisfactory. That is why we are satisfied about compliance so far with the contract. The first deliveries on the contract are due on 25 February, and we will of course check whether they are within the specifications.
Lord Astor of Hever: My Lords, officers and senior NCOs affected by regimental and band cuts are
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concerned at the high cost of changing their privately funded uniforms, such as expensive mess kits. Will funds be set aside to compensate them?
Lord Bach: My Lords, we are still working through all the consequences of the recent announcements made in this House and elsewhere on the reorganisation of the infantry, including the implications for changes to uniform and regimental embellishments. We are already looking at amending contracts with clothing suppliers to ensure that current stock levels are reduced in a proper and timely manner. We think that the overall costs should be modest and can be absorbed into in-year budgets as they occur. I can give the noble Lord this satisfaction: I confirm that non-commissioned officers and officers will not have to pay for their standard issue of uniform. I know that one of the considerations is for the non-standard issue of uniform, and I will take that back.
Lord Taylor of Blackburn: My Lords, can my noble friend give us the difference in prices?
Lord Bach: My Lords, I am afraid I am not in a position to give the difference between the prices, nor would it be appropriate for me to do so for a contract that was run commercially in the normal way. But I can say that all those who applied to be prime contractors for this contract—and it was a competition for a prime contractorship—are UK companies.
Lord Berkeley: My Lords, is it clear that the NCOs' and the officers' uniforms will also be made in China, or was that a different order which might be made in the UK?
Lord Bach: My Lords, the Question of my noble friend Lord Hoyle was about a particular contract for combat uniforms. The contract for uniforms referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Astor, is quite different.
Earl Attlee: My Lords, does the Minister agree that the cost of a new mess kit for an officer would be at least £500? In asking the question, I remind the House of my interest.
Lord Bach: My Lords, if the noble Earl says so, of course I agree with him.
Lord Hoyle: My Lords, in agreeing that the contract was placed with Cooneen Watts & Stone, will my noble friend confirm that the contract is with an ex-Red Army factory in China? Were the samples he described made in the UK or in China? My information is that they were produced in the UK.
Lord Bach: My Lords, I do not know where the fabric from which the garments were made was manufactured. I will write to my noble friend on that. He is quite right that the Chinese factory has a subcontract role, but all the consortium companies which submitted tenders for the contract were led by UK-based companies. As is the continuing trend in the clothing industry, whether we like it or not, most
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garment manufacture is sourced from overseas. Other bidders plan to have some of the items manufactured in countries as far apart as the Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania, Sri Lanka, Dubai and China.
Lord Campbell-Savours: My Lords, if it is true that it is normal for these contracts to be placed overseas, why do we not simply buy the goods direct and save taxpayers a lot of money?
Lord Bach: My Lords, the prime contractor, whoever it is, in a contract such as this has a key role to play. We do not believe that we would get such efficient service if it were sent direct.
Construction Industry: Training
Lord Harrison asked Her Majesty's Government:
What action they are taking to promote opportunities for apprenticeships and work experience for those training to acquire skills in the United Kingdom's construction industry.
Lord Triesman: My Lords, we are expanding and improving both apprenticeships and work experience opportunities and engaging more employers to offer apprenticeships, including in construction. Construction is one of the priority sectors developing new sector skills agreements, which set out how the industry skills base will be improved. Apprenticeships and work experience will play a major role in achieving the goal of an all-qualified construction workforce by 2010.
Lord Harrison: My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that encouraging Answer. First, will the Government extend the successful pilot programme called OSAT, which is concerned with onsite training and assessment of apprentices in the construction industry, so that we can provide the 500,000 new recruits that we need each year in this important and vital industry? Secondly, will the Government help to rationalise the gathering of data for labour market intelligence and skills assessment, which currently falls among four separate government agencies and departments?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, I assure my noble friend that the initiative that he described a moment ago will continue. Because of the need for the half million further trained experts within the next six years within the industry, that programme will be very important. In all these areas, we are very reliant for intelligence on employers in the industry. Nobody knows what is needed in the industry in the medium and long term better than those who have to address that industry from a commercial point of view. Although a number of government agencies are indeed involved, they come together through the sector skills councils, where the evidence of employers is foremost.
Baroness Morris of Bolton: My Lords, this country is crying out for more plumbers, joiners and skilled
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tradesmen. Surely one of the best ways in which to encourage apprenticeships is to confer status and standing on practical vocational skills. Does not the Government risk sending out the wrong message with their obsession to push 50 per cent of young people into universities?
Lord Triesman: My Lords, the aspiration for 50 per cent of young people to qualify themselves to the highest possible level cannot be a bad one. However, the need is plain: we need more people with the skills that have just been described, and the sector skills councils are absolutely vital in that. They will reach skills agreements which will go to the heart of the programme, as is happening in construction. I have been astonished to find that the Official Opposition plan to abolish the councils that provide the employers with exactly the means that they seek to shape training, to put funding and training into operation and to offer routes to employment and career progression for young people. That must be one of the most surprising pieces of policy that anyone has heard of.
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