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Baroness Henig: My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that positive response. However, in view of the fact that incidents of domestic violence account for at least 16 per cent of all violent crime—and that is almost certainly an under-recording as we know that women victims will suffer up to 35 incidents of domestic violence before going to the police—what is the cost of this crime to society? What measures, taken in conjunction with the police and local community safety partnerships, such as, for example, the provision of dedicated women's centres, does the Minister consider would be most successful in encouraging women victims not just to come forward at an earlier stage but also to give them help, support and, most importantly, protection in what are often most difficult court proceedings?

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, as regards my noble friend's first point on costs, Professor Walby undertook research on behalf of the Department of Trade and Industry which indicated that the cost of domestic violence at the moment is about £23 billion a year. Some £3 billion is spent on public services; £1
 
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billion on the criminal justice system; £1.2 billion on the NHS; a quarter of a billion pounds on social services; £160 million on housing; £300 million on civil legal services and £2.7 billion is accounted for in costs to employers through loss of working time. That is a huge cost to this country. It is a vile and wicked situation. Through the inter-ministerial group that I chair, the Government have a cross-departmental response to these issues which includes health, education and the housing responsibilities of the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister. All those issues are tackled in a co-ordinated way.

Lord Laming: My Lords, does the Minister agree that the victims of domestic violence include the children of the household? Will she give an assurance that when the police are called to households in these circumstances they will report on the children's welfare to social services?

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I emphasise what has just been said in relation to domestic violence. Children are often the silent witnesses of what happens in the home and they unfortunately get to know far more of what is going on than adults believe. We have emphasised in the guidance and in the work that we are doing with the Association of Chief Police Officers how important their welfare is. I am very proud to say that the new provisions which we have introduced enable better safety for our children to be more easily delivered.

Viscount Bridgeman: My Lords, according to the Government's paper, Living without fear, a woman may approach up to 10 different agencies before she gets the help that she needs. What discussions has the Minister had with organisations such as Refuge, Women's Aid and the NSPCC to promote close working relationships with government on this issue?

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, we have worked very closely indeed with Women's Aid and Refuge. Noble Lords will know that we launched a national helpline for domestic violence. That was done with those agencies. A very strong contribution was made by the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister, by my noble friends Lord Filkin and Lady Ashton and in particular by my noble friend Lord Rooker, who is the Minister responsible at the ODPM and who has worked very hard indeed on our ministerial committee to try to ensure that these provisions are in place.

Baroness Howe of Idlicote: My Lords, in view of the clearly embedded nature of this heinous crime and, indeed, the cost to the whole community as well as to individuals which the Minister has already outlined, will she expand on the role that the education services are expected to play?

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I am very pleased to do that. This very day we launched with the National Union of Teachers guidance to teachers on how they should respond to domestic violence,
 
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together with the Home Office-sponsored anti-bullying and domestic violence toolkits. The real issue for many teachers who have grappled with this issue for a long time is, when they identify a child who is so suffering, what they do on a practical level to help to alleviate that situation. The guidance that we issued today, together with the Home Office joint anti-bullying and domestic violence toolkits, gives teachers the tools that they need to meet this challenge much more effectively.

Baroness Prosser: My Lords, is the Minister aware of the report which was published last week entitled, What a Waste, which calls on government to take a more strategic approach to combating violence against women? I declare an interest in this report, as it was published in part by the Women's National Commission, which I chair. How may such strategic approaches enable government to provide a more co-ordinated response to the varied impact of violence on women's lives, particularly bearing in mind the impact on their general health?

Baroness Scotland of Asthal: My Lords, I assure my noble friend that we have implemented a strategic approach to the way in which we work together. I hope to be able to publish the results of that work at the end of the month. I hope that my noble friend will be very pleased by it. I shall put a copy of the report in the Libraries of this House and the other place.

Banks: Profits

3.1 p.m.

Lord Dykes asked Her Majesty's Government:

What is their response to recent reported profits in the United Kingdom banking sector in terms of the overall interest of customers and the wider public.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Lord McIntosh of Haringey): My Lords, the banking sector plays a key role in the United Kingdom's economy and is important to economic growth and to our prosperity. The Government's objective is to ensure that the financial services market works well for consumers. Several measures have been introduced over the past few years that improve competition in the banking industry. These have given consumers greater opportunities to take advantage of the wide choice of financial products available to them.

Lord Dykes: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. With interest rates to lenders ranging from the nearly invisible to merely miniscule and rates to borrowers going from 9 per cent to 39 per cent, we see the fate of hapless, ordinary, private customers of the British retail and clearing banks. Will the Minister and the Government overcome their natural laissez-faire
 
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feelings and initiate discussions with the extremely well paid chairmen and chief executives of such banks to get a better deal for ordinary customers?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, the measure of the difference between lending interest rates and borrowing interest rates is well known; it is called the spread. It has been decreasing in recent years. I can, with pleasure, set out the figures in a letter to the noble Lord, Lord Dykes. It has been decreasing for all banks. The problem is that the spread is not the same for all banks and my bank is particularly bad at it. But that is my problem; perhaps I should change banks.

Baroness Seccombe: My Lords, will the Minister tell the House whether there is any level of profit that the Government consider excessive in any business sector? If so, what is it and why?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, the Government do not comment on the financial results of individual companies.

Lord Harrison: My Lords, will my noble friend comment on an important group of customers of the banks; namely, small businesses? Is the Chancellor of the Exchequer being successful in trying to encourage banks to be more helpful towards small businesses, who often experience great difficulties in maintaining their prosperity because the banks are so unhelpful?

Lord McIntosh of Haringey: My Lords, some time ago—some would say too long ago—Don Cruickshank made recommendations to the Government about the banks' treatment of small businesses. The Government referred his report to the Competition Commission, which reported in June 2002. All, I think, of the recommendations of the Competition Commission have been implemented. In particular, I draw attention to the agreement made by the Office of Fair Trading with the banks that they should offer a current account at base minus 2.5 per cent, or an account free of transmission charges, or a choice between the two. There are also other options.

Baroness O'Cathain: My Lords, can the Minister inform the House whether any study is being done by the Treasury on the amount of the profits of the clearing banks that is directly related to delays in payments of cheques? The delay of four or five working days from when money is deposited is a disgrace in view of the huge developments in transmission technology.

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