Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Lord Pendry: My Lords, I am very pleased to speak in this important debate on a Bill which I am sure will lead to added protections for Britain's communities. As my noble friend the Minister has already pointed out, this Government have a very strong record of tackling crime and have introduced several pieces of legislation which collectively have helped to reduce crime levels and target criminals.
14 Mar 2005 : Column 1168
I recognise that the Bill proposes measures which will extend still further protection from crime, from the most serious organised forms to low-level though no less important anti-social behaviour, and I broadly commend the Government's intentions in that regard. However, I should like to discuss one element of the Bill which concerns me.
The Bill proposes to extend the remit of the Security Industry Authoritya body set up by the Private Security Industry Act 2001 ostensibly to tackle wheel clampers, doormen and bouncersto cover Scotland. There is little wrong with that in principle but the Government must clarify the role of the Security Industry Authority in relation to football stewards to ensure that they do not introduce just as much confusion into Scotland as currently reigns in England.
I am sure I need not remind noble Lords that I am president of the Football Foundation having previously served as chairman of that body and its predecessor the Football Trust, bodies which, following the terrible tragedy at Hillsborough in 1991, played a key role in the evolution in the standards of football safety. After many years of investment through the Football Foundation and the Football Stadium Improvement Trust, football grounds up and down the country are almost unrecognisably improved. Now all Football League, Premiership and international football venues in England are universally better equipped to provide a safe, enjoyable environment in which to watch and support football.
As stadia have improved, rising standards in stewarding at football have added to the level of community protection providing a major safeguard to deal with trouble at grounds. Football clubs have invested a huge amount in the training of stewards and there is now a dedicated football stewarding qualification, the FSQ.
I understand from the Football Association that football has developed further its training package and now offers a certificate in event and matchday stewarding with further plans for specific training in conflict resolution. This qualification has now been submitted to the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority for approval within the national qualifications framework. I pay tribute to the Football Association, the FA Premier League and the Football League for the commitment that they and their clubs have made in this welcome development.
To noble Lords who have not engaged with this issue for a long period of time, I should explain that ground safety arrangements are covered by two specific Acts of Parliament: the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975; and the Football Spectators Act 1989. As a result football stewards are licensed by local authorities and the Football Licensing Authority, an executive body of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. These measures have brought with them tangible signs of success. The latest figures of the Football Licensing Authority show that of some 38 million people going to league and international football only around 1,500 were injured at grounds
14 Mar 2005 : Column 1169
with 90 per cent of those injuries treatable on site. Indeed, the latest government statistics illustrate the point further, showing a 10 per cent year on year reduction in disorder. In answer to a Written Question from the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Leigh, the noble Baroness, Lady Scotland, stated that the multi-agency strategy,
"is working and football stadia in England and Wales are now among the safest and most secure in the world".[Official Report, 7/03/05; col. WA 68.]
Yet despite that success, football clubs and football authorities have found themselves threatened by an additional and, I would argue, entirely unnecessary regulatory burden in the recent past from the Security Industry Authority which wishes to duplicate the work of other licensing agencies by licensing football stewards. Last October, as chairman of the Cabinet Office's Better Regulation Task Force, David Arculus said:
"Over-zealous interpretation of regulation by Government regulators and industry bodies is one of the factors leading to layers of red tape winding their way around businesses and the public. This regulatory creep is the 'hidden menace' of red tape".
The involvement of the SIA in football is a case in point of that type of regulatory creep, and is therefore not only counter-intuitive but also contrary to the Government's own best practice guidance. It should also be noted that the football industry was never consulted on this matter during the passage of the Private Security Industry Bill through Parliament. Moreover, the then Home Office Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, commented specifically during debate on the Private Security Industry Bill that if football stewards are,
"provided in house, they will not be subject to regulation because it will be assumed that the company, the football club, will have properly trained them and will be responsible for improving standards and so forth".[Official Report, 18/12/2002; col. 599.]
I shall be bold and suggest that it was clearly therefore never the Government's intention that the SIA should have a role in football, given that it so clearly duplicates the work of the Football Licensing Authority and the local authorities. This Bill proposes to extend the SIA's remit to Scotland, providing the Government with the opportunity to clarify their position on football stewards and the SIA. Therefore, I call on the Minister to take this opportunity to assure me that they will exempt football from the Private Security Industry Act 2001 on the basis that equivalent protections are already in place with local authorities and the Football Licensing Authority. If she cannot make that declaration today, which I would understand, will she at least agree to meet with me and representatives of the football industry so that we can consider in advance of Committee stage whether we might need to table an amendment on this issue?
Viscount Slim: My Lords, I welcome the creation of the Serious Organised Crime Agency. I should declare that in my past life, I have worked with the police and with Customs and Excise. Funnily enough, when overseas I once tried to put together something rather similar to these provisions.
14 Mar 2005 : Column 1170
I am rather glad that in the agency, the immigration authorities will be represented, becauselet us face itthey have let a lot of people in here whom we are now chasing. So it should be a good team effort, I hope. However, like the noble Lord, Lord Imbert, I am concerned about command and control, and the procedures involved. The control of the agency seems purely political at the moment, and I am not sure that that is a particularly good thing. Of course, the agency should be politically accountable, but the actual command and control should not be in hands of a politician for day-to-day and operational matters.
I hope that the Minister will listen carefully to what the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, and the noble Baroness, Lady Henig, said, because I was going to say much the same. We must pay attention to the composition, the training, how we put it all together, and the problems that it will give the policebecause they will have some problems; namely, with the fact that their best people must not be stolen for the agency. We must ask where the police stand in all thisand there does not seem to be police representation on the agency. The noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, made some very telling and down-to-earth points.
I have problems with Clause 124 and Schedule 10. I find that measure oppressive and am not confident that it will do what the Minister says it should. There is definitely a feeling around that it is going to stop us speaking freely, teasing each other about our various religions and in fact being rather uncomplimentary at times. That has always been our way. It does not take away from the Britishness of the whole of our lives. It will bury a lot of the real nastiness underground and, when that is done, there is a chance that it will explode dangerously in the future.
I was interested in the excellent little speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Flather. I was in the opposite position. I went to college in India with 300 Indians of all races and religions and only 30 white men. I too never felt awkward, unloved or different. We had our own mosques, temples, gurdwaras and chapels. When the bell rang, we very often went to the nearest. It seemed to work very well. The right reverend Prelate might think I am hedging my bets for the future, but there are many paths of attainment and no one on Earth knows what happens afterwards. It is a bit of a guessing game.
Like my noble friend Lord Bhatia, I feel that Muslims in our country at the moment have a problem. Somehow, we must integrate them into the British scene and the British way of life, particularly the young. But they must not just cry. They must stand up and be British Muslims. They must denounce terrorism from the treetops. They must come in. We asked them to come, and they have not come. Of course, there are British elements that are being particularly unpleasant to them at the moment, but it is such a tiny element that it is not truly British. So let us all work to do that.
Let us have a look at this clause. I hope that the Government can do so. I cannot support it as it is at the moment and I hope that, as amendments are tabled
14 Mar 2005 : Column 1171
and debated, something is done. The clause is not good at the moment. However, I support the agency and all that it entails and, like the noble Lord, Lord Imbertwho has great experience and thought about this 16 years agoI wish I were 35 years younger. I would not make a good detective sergeant, but I would not mind having a shot at being the boss.
Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |