| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Lord Addington: My Lords, does the Minister agree that the process through which the grant is applied for is seen to be complicated? At the very least, if this review does not propose a root-and-branch reform of that process, will the Government give us a guarantee that key workers will be allocated to this process, so that people who need the money will get it and not lose it merely on page 43(b), section 6?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I have a great deal of sympathy for the view that this is a complicated grant for those who apply for it and for those who operate it. I have had personal experience of assisting constituents, and I know how difficult it can be. That is one of the reasons why the review is taking place: so that we can make the process more transparent and easier for those who need to access an important source of funding.
22 Mar 2005 : Column 114
Lord Ashley of Stoke: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that if ever there was a time to be generous it is when the parents of disabled children are looking for money to adapt their houses for safety and welfare? Some of those people have to carry heavy adolescents up and down the stairs to the toilet because the house is not adapted, which is a scandalous situation. The means test is an abomination because it operates very unfairly indeed, and there is plenty of evidence of that. We are not seeking its reform, but its abolition.
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, we accept that there are individual cases and that hardship can be caused; that is why the review is taking place. I particularly acknowledge the point with regard to those families with a disabled child suffering more than most. That is why we adjusted the means test back in 2000 to make it easier for them and more fully to recognise the increased housing costs that those families bear.
Lord Skelmersdale: My Lords, does the Minister recall that when his colleague John Spellar announced the abolition of the means test for this grant for parents of disabled children in Northern Ireland, he said:
"There is a strong moral argument for ensuring that any barriers disabled children may face in getting facilities they need are removed"?
Does the noble Lord not believe that that covers the rest of the country as well?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, clearly we need to have a policy that works across the piece. John Spellar's comments are part of an important commentary on the way in which the current scheme works. We inherited a means test that did not work particularly well for families with young children. That is why the review is taking place. The best thing to do at this stage is to await the outcome of the review, because I am sure that the noble Lord will be pleased with that outcome.
Baroness Wilkins: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Renton, has already mentioned the considerable extra cost of raising a disabled child, which is at least three times that of other children. Does the Minister agree that the vast majority of families would pass any fair means test that took those true costs into account? Would it not be sensible entirely to abolish this damaging and extremely stressful means test?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, again I go back to the point that the review is looking at the whole means test issue. It would be wrong of me to prejudge that, and I do not want to do so at the Dispatch Box today. I have great sympathy for the points that the noble Baroness has made, and I have no doubt that the review is taking those issues carefully into account.
22 Mar 2005 : Column 115
Croatia: EU Accession Negotiations
2.59 p.m.
The Earl of Dundee asked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether there will be any delay to the start of negotiations for Croatia's entry to the European Union once the condition of full co-operation with the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia has been met.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean): My Lords, on 16 March, European Union Foreign Ministers adopted the mandate for Croatia's EU accession negotiations, but postponed the opening of negotiations themselves because of concerns about the lack of full co-operation with the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. That followed confirmation by the ICTY chief prosecutor that the negative assessment in her November 2004 report to the United Nations Security Council remained unchanged. Foreign Ministers made it clear that the EU stood ready to open negotiations with Croatia as soon as co-operation with the ICTY was full.
The Earl of Dundee: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. I declare an interest as chairman of the All-Party Group on Croatia. As that country has been judged ready in other respects, does she accept that EU negotiations should begin as soon as full co-operation with the ICTY is deemed to have occurred? Does she also agree that a timely decision on that beginning date will very much assist confidence and stability within Croatia and elsewhere, including the former Yugoslavia?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, the Government's position is that, as soon as that full co-operation can be demonstrated, those negotiations should begin. I agree with the noble Earl's point concerning the example that that will be to other candidates. Croatia's progress towards EU membership certainly sets an example for other Balkan countries to follow. It shows others in the region that the EU will fulfil its commitments when they meet the conditions to which they have agreed. However, it is enormously important that the EU's policy on Croatia shows that there is a level playing field, and that full co-operation with the ICTY is a non-negotiable prerequisite.
Lord Dubs: My Lords, all of us agree with the Government's position. However, we also feel that Croatia's accession to the EU is a matter of some importance, provided that the conditions are met. Could we be any help to the Croatian Government in enabling them to catch the war criminal, so that they can be in compliance with the International Criminal Tribunal?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, of course the United Kingdom fully supports the accession negotiations with Croatia once the conditions have been
22 Mar 2005 : Column 116
met. When Carla del Ponti made her report to the UN Security Council, and in her subsequent updates to the EU Foreign Ministers, she said that Mr Gotovina continued to benefit from well organised support networks in Croatia. It is very important that the Croatian authorities themselves take the initiative on the issue. She went on to say that the Croatian authorities could deliver Mr Gotovina if the necessary political will and resources were brought to bear. It is a question not of what we can do from the outside, but of the political will in Croatia.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, does the Minister agree that the importance of conditionality applies not only to Croatia, but to all the members; and that, in the Copenhagen conditions, the quality and integrity of a country's judiciary, police and public administration is key?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, I agree. I told the noble Earl a moment ago that full co-operation was a non-negotiable prerequisite. It is absolutely essential that the countries that wish to join us in the European Union understand that they must do everything in their power to comply with the ICTY. It is important that they have the internal infrastructure to do that but—as Carla del Ponti made clear, certainly in Croatia's case—it is not that they have not got that, but that they are not putting the resources in and demonstrating the real political will.
Lord Grenfell: My Lords, I am secretary of the All-Party Group on Croatia and I have recently been in Zagreb. Must full co-operation with the International Criminal Tribunal be the delivery of General Gotovina to The Hague or, as some have suggested, should it be a demonstration on the part of the Croatian Government that they are doing everything within their power to do so and are simply physically unable to do it?
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, what has been said is that the Croatian Government must demonstrate full co-operation. However, I would not want to mislead the noble Lord. It is clearly the view of Carla del Ponti that, if the political will were there, it would be possible to send Mr Gotovina to the ICTY. She was clear when she has talked about the ability to use the resources of the country, and says that she believes that he is in reach of the authorities and relies on the networks within the country to protect him.
Lord Biffen: My Lords, given that there is widespread belief in the good faith of the Croatians in seeking membership of the European Union, would it not be valuable to have on record the exact objections of the International Criminal Tribunal, so that we can see precisely the weight that should be borne on them and the response of the Croatian Government to them?
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |