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The Earl of Northesk: My Lords, again, I am extremely grateful to the noble and learned Lord for his reply and for the support of the noble Lord, Lord Newby, and my noble friend Lady Noakes.
I shall offer immediately one small crumb of comfort to the noble and learned Lord the Attorney-General. There is no greater admirer of his advocacy than myself and his skill has been successful in that particular endeavour. I am no draftsman but I can accept the argument he advances that in Amendment No. 9 certain infelicities exist in the drafting, not least the potential for a Henry VIII provision. So, I am quite happy to withdraw that amendment.
Nevertheless, I should advise the noble and learned Lord that my concerns about the issue remain. Justifications remain for having the text of the draft regulations in the Bill. So I merely withdraw the amendment on the basis that I shall have to reflect on how to deal with the flaws perceived by the noble and learned Lord and myself.
On his arguments in respect of the super affirmative provisions, I said in my introduction that I thought it was possible to overplay those.
I fully understand and appreciate the point that the noble and learned Lord makes about delay. However, my noble friend Lady Wilcox on the Front Bench has had recent experience of a specific order, albeit a negative one. It was laid on one day and two days later it came into force. I do not believe that it is beyond the wit of the usual channels, because it happens frequently in the House, to negotiate their way past the 60-day rule within
22 Mar 2005 : Column 166
the amendment. After all, the 40-day rule, which exists as a result of the Statutory Instruments Act, is frequently breached. So I do not think that that argument, per se—
Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for letting me intervene. He proposes to put in primary legislation that you cannot make provisions unless the previous stage happened 60 days—or whatever it is—before. I do not see how the usual channels could overcome that. If it is 60 days in the statute, it is 60 days.
The Earl of Northesk: My Lords, I hear what the noble and learned Lord says. As my noble friend Lord Campbell of Alloway said in earlier proceedings on the Bill, I fear we will just have to beg to differ. For me there is an important principle here. These issues are far too important for the rather tenuous scrutiny that even affirmative procedure affords. So when we reach those amendments I shall divide on them. In respect of Amendment No. 9, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
The Earl of Northesk moved Amendment No. 10:
The noble Earl said: My Lords, I have already spoken to this amendment. I beg to move.
6.27 p.m.
On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 10) shall be agreed to?
Their Lordships divided: Contents, 134; Not-Contents, 126.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Biffen, L.
Blaker, L.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Bowness, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
De Mauley, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dundee, E.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Garden, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Goodhart, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Home, E.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Inglewood, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jopling, L.
Kalms, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laidlaw, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lindsay, E.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Montrose, D.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Palmer, L.
Patten of Barnes, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Reay, L.
Rees, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Roper, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tebbit, L.
Thatcher, B.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tordoff, L.
Tugendhat, L.
Vinson, L.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Wilcox, B. [Teller]
Windlesham, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President of the Council)
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Blood, B.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chandos, V.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Drayson, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grantchester, L.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jones, L.
Judd, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leitch, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
O'Neill of Bengarve, B.
Parekh, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Rosser, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sewel, L.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Snape, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thornton, B.
Triesman, L.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Walpole, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.
22 Mar 2005 : Column 168
6.36 p.m.
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