House of Lords Journal 238 (Session 2004-05)


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Wednesday 24th November 2004

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Falconer of Thoroton, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alderdice, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashcroft, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Bagri, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.

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Best, L.
Bhatia, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Birt, L.
Blackwell, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blood, B.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Boyce, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carey of Clifton, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Carter of Coles, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Condon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cullen of Whitekirk, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Drayson, L.
D’Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Dykes, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkender, B.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fowler, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Giddens, L.
Gilbert, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Golding, B.
Goodhart, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Brookwood, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Grocott, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Hattersley, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayman, B.
Henig, B.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hoffmann, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howard of Rising, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton, L.
Inge, L.
Inglewood, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Joffe, L.
Jones, L.
Jopling, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kalms, L.
Kilclooney, L.
Kimball, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leitch, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
McCluskey, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McDonagh, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.

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Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
May of Oxford, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mishcon, L.
Mitchell, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Moser, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murphy, B.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Newcastle, Bp.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Onslow, E.
Oxburgh, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parkinson, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Peel, E.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Peterborough, Bp.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plumb, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Portsmouth, Bp.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prashar, B.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Robertson of Port Ellen, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selsdon, L.
Sewel, L.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwell, Bp.
Steinberg, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thatcher, B.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Triesman, L.
Trumpington, B.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vincent of Coleshill, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Winchester, Bp.
Windlesham, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Oxford.

Judicial Business

1.McFarlane (Appellant) v. McFarlane (Respondent) (England)— The appeal of Julia Helena Chocholowska McFarlane was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 5th January (lodged 22nd November).

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2.Matthews and others (Appellants) v. Kent and Medway Towns Fire Authority and others (Respondents) (England)— The appeal of Barry George Griffin, Glenville Stephen Varrall, Leslie Chappell, Christopher Foster, Darren Lee Rosewell, Gary Richard Willis, Martin Lee Kerby, Peter Normal Welsh, Ralph Webb, Gary Foster, Gene Aron Mason and Colin Frederick Elliott was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 5th January (lodged 23rd November).
3.Smith (Petitioner) v. Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and another (Respondents)— The petition of Helen Smith praying for leave to appeal was presented without payment of the fee, such fee having been waived by the Appeal Committee pursuant to Standing Order XIII; the said petition was referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 18th November).
4.Regina v. Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Appellant) ex parte Hooper and others (FC) (Respondents)—
5.Regina v. Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Respondent) ex parte Hooper (Appellant) and others—
6.Regina v. Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Respondent) ex parte Hooper and others (FC) (Appellants)—

(Conjoined Appeals)—
The appeals were set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee (lodged 22nd November).

7.Harper (Appellant) v. Virgin Net Limited (Respondents)— The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee (lodged 19th November).
8.Haward and others (Respondents) v. Fawcetts (a firm) (Appellants) and others—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 13th December (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed (lodged 22nd November).
9.Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) ex parte Bagdanavicius (FC) and another (Appellants)— The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 3rd January 2005 or to the third sitting day after the next ensuing meeting of the House (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed (lodged 22nd November).
10.Szoma (FC) (Appellant) v. Secretary of State for the Department of Work and Pensions (Respondent)— The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 5th January 2005 or to the third sitting day after the next ensuing meeting of the House (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.
11.In re D (a child appearing by her guardian ad litem) (Respondent) (FC)— The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 6th January 2005 or to the third sitting day after the next ensuing meeting of the House (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed. The appellant’s certificate of public funding was lodged.
12.Brown (Appellant) v. Scottish Ministers (Respondents) (Scotland)— The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 4th January 2005 (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed (lodged 22nd November).
13.In re Sinn Fein (Appellants) (Northern Ireland)— The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 3rd January 2005 or to the third sitting day after the next ensuing meeting of the House (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed (lodged 22nd November).
14.Gardner (Appellant) v. Parker (Respondent)— The petition of the appellant was presented praying that the appeal be withdrawn on the terms agreed between the parties (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto); and it was ordered as prayed.
15.Appeal Committee—The following Orders were made pursuant to the 111th Report, Session 2003–04—

R (on the application of Jones and others) (Respondents) v. Ceredigion County Council (Petitioners)— That leave to appeal be given on issue 2 only and on terms that the petitioners do pay the respondents’ costs before this House in any event; and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 8th December.
In re Wellington (Petitioner) (application for a writ of Habeas Corpus)— That leave to appeal be refused.

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16.Appeal Committee—The First Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made—

National Car Parks Limited (Petitioners) v. Baird and another (Valuation Officers) (Respondents)— That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
R (on the application of Tromans and another) (Respondents) v. Cannock Chase District Council (Petitioners)— That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 8th December.
College of Estate Management (Respondents) v. Her Majesty’s Commissioners of Customs and Excise (Petitioners)— That leave to appeal be given; and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 8th December.

17.Appeal Committee—The 2nd Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made—

WISE (Underwriting Agency) Limited (Petitioners) and others v. Grupo Nacional Provincial SA (Respondents)— That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
Unipart Group Limited (Petitioners) v. O2 (UK) Limited (formerly BT Cellnet Limited) and others (Respondents)— That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.
West Bromwich Building Society (Petitioners) v. Wilkinson and another (Respondents)— That leave to appeal be given on terms that the petitioners do pay the costs of the appeal and do not seek to disturb the orders for costs below; and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 8th December next.

Papers

18.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Criminal Defence Service Bill, Draft—Government Response to the Report of the House of Commons Select Committee on Constitutional Affairs on the Draft Criminal Defence Service Bill;
 (6410)
2.Contingent Liabilities—Notification from the Department for Culture, Media and Sport on contingent liabilities with regard to the National Museums Liverpool;
 (—)
3.Works of Art—Report of the Spoliation Advisory Panel in respect of a painting now in the possession of Glasgow City Council;
 (—)
4.Housing—Departmental Minute from the Ministry of Defence concerning the gifting of a non-core MOD site in Aldershot to the English Churches Housing Group.
 (—)
19.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft International Criminal Court (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2004, laid under the International Criminal Court Act 2001, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
2. (i)Draft European Communities (Definition of Treaties) (European Police Office) Order 2004, together with an Explanatory Memorandum—
(ii)Draft European Communities (Immunities and Privileges of the European Police Office) (Amendment) Order 2004, together with an Explanatory Memorandum—
 laid under the European Communities Act 1972;
3.Draft European Police College (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2004, laid under the International Organisations Act 1968, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
4.Draft Information and Consultation of Employees Regulations 2004, laid under the Employment Relations Act 2004, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
5.Draft Agriculture (Northern Ireland) Order 2004, laid under the Northern Ireland Act 2000, together with an Explanatory Memorandum.
20.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Medicines (Products for Animal Use—Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2004, laid under the Medicines Act 1971;
 (3081)

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2. (i)International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (Freezing of Funds and Economic Resources and Indictees) (Amendment) Regulations 2004—(3099)
(ii)Burma (Prohibition on Financing) Regulations 2004—(3100)
 laid under the European Communities Act 1972.
21.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.National Policing Plan 2005–08—Safer, Stronger Communities, laid under the Police Reform Act 2002;
2.Report and Accounts for 2003–04 of the Arts Council of England, laid under the National Lottery etc. Act 1993.
22.Instrument coming into operation before being laid—The Lord Chancellor acquainted the House that he had received, under the proviso to section 4(1) of the Statutory Instruments Act 1946, notification that the following instrument had come into operation before being laid before Parliament, with an explanation thereof; the notification and explanation were ordered to lie on the Table:

Northern Ireland (Sentences) Act 1998 (Specified Organisations) Order 2004.

Public Business

23.Constitutional Reform Bill [hl]—A bill to make provision for modifying the office of Lord Chancellor, and to make provision relating to the functions of that office; to establish a Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, and to abolish the appellate jurisdiction of the House of Lords; to make provision about the jurisdiction of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council and the judicial functions of the President of the Council; to make other provision about the judiciary, their appointment and discipline; and for connected purposes was presented by the Lord Falconer of Thoroton, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 1)
24.International Organisations Bill [hl]—A bill to make provision about privileges, immunities and facilities in connection with certain international organisations was presented by the Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 2)
25.International Organisations Bill [hl]—It was ordered that the Explanatory Notes relating to the bill be printed. (HL Bill 2-EN)
26.Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Bill [hl]—A bill to establish and make provision about the office of Public Services Ombudsman for Wales; to make provision about the functions of the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales; to make provision about compensation; to abolish the Commission for Local Administration in Wales and the offices of Welsh Administration Ombudsman, Health Service Commissioner for Wales and Social Housing Ombudsman for Wales; and for connected purposes was presented by the Lord Evans of Temple Guiting, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 3)
27.Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Bill [hl]—It was ordered that the Explanatory Notes relating to the bill be printed. (HL Bill 3-EN)
28.Assisted Dying for the Terminally Ill Bill [hl]—A bill to enable a competent adult who is suffering unbearably as a result of a terminal illness to receive medical assistance to die at his own considered and persistent request; and to make provision for a person suffering from a terminal illness to receive pain relief medication was presented by the Lord Joffe, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 4)
29.Parliamentary Commissioner (Amendment) Bill [hl]—A bill to amend the Parliamentary Commissioner Act 1967 so as to enable the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration to investigate complaints received directly from members of the public was presented by the Lord Lester of Herne Hill, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 5)
30.Committee of Selection—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that in accordance with Standing Order 64 a Committee of Selection be appointed to select and propose to the House the names of the Lords to form each select committee of the House (except the Committee of Selection itself and any committee otherwise provided for by statute or by order of the House) or any other body not being a select committee referred to it by the Chairman of Committees, and the panel of Deputy Chairmen of Committees; and that the following Lords together with the Chairman of Committees be named of the Committee—
B. Amos (Lord President)
L. Brooke of Sutton Mandeville
L. Cope of Berkeley
L. Grocott
L. McNally
B. Massey of Darwen
L. Roper
L. Strathclyde
V. Tenby
L. Williamson of Horton;

the motion was agreed to.

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31.Business of the House—It was moved by the Lord President (Baroness Amos), pursuant to the resolution of the House of 22nd March 2004, that, in the event of a Constitutional Reform Bill having being read a first time in the same form as that reported from the Committee of the Whole House in the last session of Parliament, Standing Order 47 (No two stages of a Bill to be taken on one day) be dispensed with to enable the bill to be taken pro forma through all the stages which the bill completed in the last session of Parliament; the motion was agreed to.
32.Constitutional Reform Bill [hl]—The Queen’s consent was signified; then it was moved by the Lord Falconer of Thoroton that the bill be now read a second time and that the bill be committed to and reported from a Select Committee and a Committee of the Whole House pro forma; the motion was agreed to.
33.Queen’s Speech—The debate on the motion that an Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty was resumed and, after further debate, was again adjourned till tomorrow.

The House was adjourned at nine minutes past eleven o’clock
till tomorrow, a quarter before ten o’clock for judicial business,
eleven o’clock for public business.