House of Lords Journal 238 (Session 2004-05)


Previous Next

Tuesday 21st December 2004

The House met at eleven o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alderdice, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bhatia, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Blackstone, B.
Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Brennan, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burlison, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Cameron of Dillington, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chan, L.
Chapman, B.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colwyn, L.
Condon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Cox, B.
Craigavon, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Cumberlege, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Drayson, L.
D’Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Dykes, L.
Eatwell, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Elles, B.
Elton, L.
Emerton, B.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falkender, B.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Giddens, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goldsmith, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Grocott, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haworth, L.
Henig, B.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.

Page 84

2004-05

Volume 238      

Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jones, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kilclooney, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leitch, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Manchester, Bp.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Maxton, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Ouseley, L.
Oxburgh, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rogan, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Sewel, L.
Sharples, B.
Sheldon, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Snape, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vincent of Coleshill, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Hornsey, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Oxford.

Page 85

2004-05

Volume 238

Back to top

Papers

1.Command Papers—The following papers, having been presented to the House by command of Her Majesty on the dates shown, were ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Charities Bill, Draft—Government Response to the Report of the Joint Committee on the Draft Charities Bill;
 (6440)
2.Standards in Public Life—An Inquiry into an Application for Indefinite Leave to Remain.
 (—)
2.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Industrial Training Levy (Engineering Construction Board) Order 2005, laid under the Industrial Training Act 1982, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
2.Draft Child Trust Funds (Amendment) Regulations 2005, laid under the Child Trust Funds Act 2004, together with an Explanatory Memorandum.
3.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Education (School Performance Targets) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2004, laid under the Education Act 1997;
 (3323)
2. (i)Food with Added Phytosterols or Phytostanols (Labelling) (England) Regulations 2004—(3344)
(ii)Sweeteners in Food (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2004—(3348)
 laid under the Food Safety Act 1990;
3. (i)Biofuel (Labelling) Regulations 2004—(3349)
(ii)Electronic Commerce Directive (Financial Services and Markets) (Amendment) Regulations 2004—(3378)
(iii)Life Assurance Consolidation Directive (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2004—(3379)
(iv)Common Agricultural Policy Single Payment Scheme (Set-aside) (England) Regulations 2004—(3385)
 laid under the European Communities Act 1972;
4.Protection of Children and Vulnerable Adults and Care Standards Tribunal (Amendment No. 2) Regulations 2004, laid under the Protection of Children Act 1999;
 (3354)
5.Penalties for Disorderly Behaviour (Amount of Penalty) (Amendment No. 4) Order 2004, laid under the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001;
 (3371)
6.Child Trust Funds (Amendment No. 2) Regulations 2004, laid under the Child Trust Funds Act 2004.
 (3382)
4.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Report for 2003 on the Children Act, laid under the Children Act 1989;
2.The Kent Acts—A Case for National Legislation, laid under the Kent County Council Act 2001;
3.Report of the Registrar General on Mortality Statistics in England and Wales 2003, laid under the Registration Service Act 1953;
4.Accounts for 2003–04 of the Scottish Screen National Lottery Distribution Account, laid under the National Lottery etc. Act 1993;
5.Report for 2003–04 of the Northern Ireland Parades Commission, laid under the Public Processions (Northern Ireland) Act 1998.

Select Committee Report

5.Merits of Statutory Instruments—The following report from the Select Committee was made and ordered to be printed:

3rd Report, on the following negative instruments:

Common Agricultural Policy Single Payment and Support Schemes (Cross Compliance) (England) Regulations 2004;

Local Authorities (Categorisation) (England) (No. 2) Order 2004;

Police (Amendment) Regulations 2004. (HL Paper 22)

Page 86

2004-05

Volume 238

Back to top

Public Business

6.Administration and Works Committee—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that the First Report from the Select Committee (HL Paper 209, Session 2003-04) be agreed to; then it was moved by the Lord Stoddart of Swindon, as an amendment thereto, to leave out “agreed to” and insert “referred back to the Committee for further consideration, including:
(a)consultation with Members of the House, staff of the House and others concerned with smokers’ rights, including the Freedom Organisation for the Right to Enjoy Smoking Tobacco;
(b)consideration of the rights of smokers in any future plans for the Writing Room and the possible partition of the present Writing Room on a temporary basis; and
(c)consideration of a possible reorganisation of the Bishops’ Bar so that smoking could be permitted in one of the two rooms.”;

after debate, the amendment was disagreed to (see division list 1); then it was moved by the Baroness Howarth of Breckland, as a further amendment thereto, at end to insert “but with the omission of paragraph 14(b), and with the insertion after paragraph 13(j) of the following new paragraph—

“13(k) the Peers’ Guest Room.””;

after debate, the amendment was agreed to (see division list 2); then the original motion, as amended, was agreed to.

7.Environmental Information Regulations 2004—It was moved by the Lord Whitty that the draft Regulations laid before the House on 27th October be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.
8.Electricity and Gas (Energy Efficiency Obligations) Order 2004—It was moved by the Lord Whitty that the draft Order laid before the House on 10th November be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.
9.Information and Consultation of Employees Regulations 2004—It was moved by the Lord Sainsbury of Turville that the draft Regulations laid before the House on 8th December be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.
10.Regulatory Reform (Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971) (Directory Entries and Demands for Payment) Order 2004—It was moved by the Lord Sainsbury of Turville that the draft Regulatory Reform Order laid before the House on 25th October be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.
11.Gulf War illnesses—The Lord Morris of Manchester asked Her Majesty’s Government what consideration they have given to the Report of the Independent Public Inquiry on Gulf War Illnesses, conducted by the Lord Lloyd of Berwick; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Bach.

The House was adjourned at eight minutes past five o’clock
to Monday 10th January next, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISIONS

FIRST REPORT FROM THE ADMINISTRATION AND WORKS COMMITTEE,
SESSION 2003-04

Division No. 1

It was moved by the Lord Stoddart of Swindon, as an amendment to the motion that the First Report from the Select Committee be agreed to, to leave out “agreed to” and insert “referred back to the Committee for further consideration, including:

(a)consultation with Members of the House, staff of the House and others concerned with smokers’ rights, including the Freedom Organisation for the Right to Enjoy Smoking Tobacco;
(b)consideration of the rights of smokers in any future plans for the Writing Room and the possible partition of the present Writing Room on a temporary basis; and
(c)consideration of a possible reorganisation of the Bishops’ Bar so that smoking could be permitted in one of the two rooms.”;

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............41

Not-Contents..............116

Page 87

2004-05

Volume 238

Back to top

CONTENTS

Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Boothroyd, B.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Cobbold, L.
Colwyn, L.
D’Souza, B.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Erroll, E.
Fitt, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Geddes, L.
Greenway, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of High Cross, L. [Teller]
Liverpool, E.
Lucas, L.
Mancroft, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Monson, L. [Teller]
Morris of Manchester, L.
Naseby, L.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Quirk, L.
Renton, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sharples, B.
Skelmersdale, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Walpole, L.
Weatherill, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President)
Andrews, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Chan, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Condon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Craigavon, V.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dubs, L.
Dykes, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L. [Teller]
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Grocott, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B. [Teller]
Harrison, L.
Henig, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Judd, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
Laird, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Maxton, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Montrose, D.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Neuberger, B.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Parekh, L.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Simon, V.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Tomlinson, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Truscott, L.
Turnberg, L.
Uddin, B.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Hornsey, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

Division No. 2

It was moved by the Baroness Howarth of Breckland, as an amendment to the motion that the First Report from the Select Committee be agreed to, at end to insert “but with the omission of paragraph 14(b), and with the insertion after paragraph 13(j) of the following new paragraph—

“13(k)the Peers’ Guest Room.””;

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............88*

Not-Contents..............53*

* The name of a Lord who voted in both lobbies has been removed from the voting lists.

Page 88

2004-05

Volume 238

Back to top

CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B. (Lord President)
Andrews, B.
Avebury, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Chan, L.
Christopher, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Condon, L.
Craigavon, V.
D’Souza, B.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dholakia, L.
Dubs, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Faulkner of Worcester, L. [Teller]
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Grocott, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Howarth of Breckland, B. [Teller]
Howe, E.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Judd, L.
Laird, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Maxton, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Neuberger, B.
Northover, B.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rea, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rooker, L.
Rosser, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Simon, V.
Strabolgi, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Tomlinson, L.
Truscott, L.
Turnberg, L.
Uddin, B.
Walpole, L.
Whitaker, B.
Wilkins, B.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Hornsey, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Astor of Hever, L.
Bach, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Boothroyd, B.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Erroll, E.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Fitt, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Geddes, L.
Greenway, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Kingsland, L.
Liverpool, E.
Lucas, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Mancroft, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Naseby, L.
Norton of Louth, L.
Palmer, L. [Teller]
Parekh, L.
Pendry, L.
Quirk, L.
Razzall, L.
Renton, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Seccombe, B.
Skelmersdale, L. [Teller]
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.