House of Lords Journal 238 (Session 2004-05)


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Wednesday 2nd February 2005

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Falconer of Thoroton, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Ballyedmond, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bhatia, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Blood, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burlison, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Canterbury, Abp.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter, L.
Carter of Coles, L.
Chan, L.
Chandos, V.
Chapman, B.
Chester, Bp.
Chorley, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colwyn, L.
Condon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Coventry, Bp.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Donoughue, L.
Drayson, L.
D’Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Dykes, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkender, B.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fearn, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.

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Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Giddens, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Golding, B.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Grocott, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Healey, L.
Henig, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howard of Rising, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hylton, L.
Imbert, L.
Inglewood, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jones, L.
Jopling, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kilclooney, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leicester, Bp.
Leitch, L.
Levy, L.
Lindsay, E.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
McCluskey, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McDonagh, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mitchell, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murphy, B.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nickson, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Owen, L.
Oxburgh, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prosser, B.
Puttnam, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Robertson of Port Ellen, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. Edmundsbury and Ipswich, Bp.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.

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Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Southwell, Bp.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Triesman, L.
Trumpington, B.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vinson, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Windlesham, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Worcester, Bp.
Young of Hornsey, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Southwark.

Judicial Business

1.Miles (Petitioner) v. Chief Constable of Kent (Respondent)—The petition of John Miles praying for leave to appeal was presented without payment of the fee, such fee having been waived by the Appeal Committee pursuant to Standing Order XIII; the said petition was referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 26th November).
2.R (on the application of Laporte) (FC) (Petitioner) v. Chief Constable of Gloucestershire (Respondent)—The petition of Jane Laporte praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee. The petitioner’s certificate of public funding was lodged.
3.Her Majesty’s Attorney General (Respondent) v. Bhamjee (Petitioner)—The petition of Ismail Abdulhai Bhamjee praying for leave to appeal notwithstanding that the time limited by Standing Order II has expired was presented without payment of the fee, such fee having been waived by the Appeal Committee pursuant to Standing Order XIII; the said petition was referred to an Appeal Committee.
4.In re McClean (Original Respondent and Cross-appellant) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal Northern Ireland) (Northern Ireland)—The petition of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland praying for leave to intervene in the said appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.
5.R v. Jones (Respondent) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division)) (formerly R v. J (Respondent))—
6.R v. Milling (Respondent) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division)) (formerly R v. M (Respondent))—
7.R v. Olditch (Respondent) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division)) (formerly R v. O (Respondent))—
8.R v. Pritchard (Respondent) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division)) (formerly R v. P (Respondent))—
9.R v. Richards (Respondent) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division)) (formerly R v. R (Respondent))—

The petition of the appellant praying that the appeals be consolidated, that he be allowed to lodge one statement, one appendix and one case and be jointly represented in respect of the appeals and that the respondents have leave to lodge one case in respect of the appeals (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

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10.R (on the application of Jones and others) (Respondents) v. Ceredigion County Council (Appellants) (Civil Appeal from Her Majesty’s High Court of Justice)—Upon application by the appellants (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto), it was ordered that the appeal be withdrawn and that the appellants do pay to the respondents their costs before this House, the amount of such costs to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Papers

11.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Social Security—Opportunity and security throughout life: Government Proposals;
 (6447)
2.Draft Children (Contact) and Adoption Bill;
 (6462)
3.Finance—Memorandum from the Public Accounts Committee on the Northern Ireland Department of Finance and Personnel.
 (6468)
12.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Child Support (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2005, laid under the Child Support Act 1991, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
2.Draft Occupational Pension Schemes (Levies) Regulations 2005, laid under the Pensions Act 2004, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
3. (i)Draft Social Security (Intensive Activity Period 50 to 59 Pilot) Regulations 2005, together with an Explanatory Memorandum—
(ii)Draft Social Security (Intensive Activity Period 50 to 59 Pilot) (No. 2) Regulations 2005, together with an Explanatory Memorandum—
 laid under the Jobseekers Act 1995;
13.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (Metropolitan District of Leeds) Order 2005, laid under the Road Traffic Act 1991;
 (95)
2.Community Legal Service (Funding) (Counsel in Family Proceedings) (Amendment) Order 2005, laid under the Access to Justice Act 1999;
 (184)
3.Pensions Regulator Code of Practice No. 1: Reporting breaches of the law, laid under the Pensions Act 2004.
 (—)
14.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Report for 2003–04 of Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Schools, laid under the School Inspections Act 1996;
2.Accounts for 2003–04 of the Local Probation Boards, laid under the Criminal Justice and Court Services Act 2000, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Select Committee Reports

15.Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform—The following reports from the Select Committee were made and ordered to be printed:

7th Report, on the following bills:

Management of Offenders and Sentencing Bill [HL];

School Transport Bill;

Traffic Wardens and Parking Attendants Bill [HL]; (HL Paper 39)

8th Report, on the following Orders:

Draft Regulatory Reform (Prison Officers) (Industrial Action) Order 2005;

Draft Regulatory Reform (Trading Stamps) Order 2005;

Draft Regulatory Reform (Joint Nature Conservation Committee) Order 2005. (HL Paper 40)

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Private Business

16.HBOS Group Reorganisation (Petition for bill)—It was reported from the Standing Orders Committee, that the Standing Orders not complied with in respect of the Petition for the bill ought to be dispensed with; the report was agreed to.

Public Business

17.Business of the House—It was moved by the Lord President (Baroness Amos) that the debate on the motion in the name of the Lord Hannay of Chiswick set down for today shall be limited to 4 hours and that in the name of the Lord Northbourne to 2 hours; the motion was agreed to.
18.Children (Contact) and Adoption Bill, Draft—It was moved by the Lord President (Baroness Amos) that it is expedient that a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons be appointed to consider and report on any draft Children (Contact) and Adoption Bill presented to both Houses by a Minister of the Crown, and that the Committee should report on the draft Bill by 26th May 2005; the motion was agreed to and a message was ordered to be sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.
19.Inquiries Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Lord Davies of Oldham, on behalf of the Lord Falconer of Thoroton, that the amendments for the Report stage be marshalled and considered in the following order:
Clauses 1 to 44
Schedule 1
Clause 45
Schedule 2
Clause 46
Schedule 3
Clauses 47 to 50;

the motion was agreed to.

20.United Nations reform, and conflict in Africa (4-hour debate)—It was moved by the Lord Hannay of Chiswick that there be laid before the House papers relating to the Report to the United Nations by the High-Level Panel on Threats, Challenges and Change, the Millennium Development Goals Review, and to the causes of conflict in Africa; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
21.Parents and children (2-hour debate)—It was moved by the Lord Northbourne that there be laid before the House papers relating to the role of parents in the welfare of children and to the case for involving parents more in the design and delivery of services for children; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
22.Traffic Wardens and Parking Attendants Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Lord Lucas that the bill be now read a second time; after debate, the motion was agreed to and the bill was committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

The House was adjourned at seventeen minutes past ten o’clock
till tomorrow, a quarter before ten o’clock for judicial business,
eleven o’clock for public business.