House of Lords Journal 238 (Session 2004-05)


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Thursday 10th February 2005

The House met at a quarter before ten o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Falconer of Thoroton, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alliance, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Best, L.
Bhatia, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Biffen, L.
Bingham of Cornhill, L.
Blaker, L.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bramall, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burlison, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carswell, L.
Carter, L.
Carter of Coles, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chan, L.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Colwyn, L.
Condon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crawley, B.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Donoughue, L.
D’Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Dykes, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elder, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Ferrers, E.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Glasgow, E.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.

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Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Grocott, L.
Hale of Richmond, B.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Henig, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howard of Rising, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hylton, L.
Inglewood, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Joffe, L.
Jones, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Laidlaw, L.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leitch, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Lipsey, L.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murphy, B.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Naseby, L.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicol, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Onslow, E.
Ouseley, L.
Oxburgh, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Peterborough, Bp.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodger of Earlsferry, L.
Rogan, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rotherwick, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Russell-Johnston, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwell, Bp.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Steyn, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Triesman, L.
Trumpington, B.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.

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Walker of Gestingthorpe, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Windlesham, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Worcester, Bp.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Southwell.

Judicial Business

1.Regina v. Wang (Appellant) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division))—The 17th Report from the Appellate Committee was made and ordered to be printed (HL Paper 42). It was moved by the Lord Bingham of Cornhill, That the Report be agreed to; the motion was agreed to. It was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal Criminal Division of 10th December 2003 be set aside and the Appellant’s conviction at Chelmsford Crown Court on 4th October 2002 quashed; and that the certified question be answered by saying that there are no circumstances in which a judge is entitled to direct a jury to return a verdict of guilty. [2005] UKHL 9
2.Polanski (Appellant) v. Conde Nast Publications Limited (Respondents)—It was moved by the Lord Hope of Craighead on behalf of the Lord Nicholls of Birkenhead, That the 18th Report from the Appellate Committee be agreed to; the motion was agreed to. It was ordered and adjudged that the Order of the Court of Appeal of 11th November 2003 be set aside and the Order of Mr Justice Eady in the High Court of Justice Queen’s Bench Division of 9th October 2003 restored; and that the respondents do pay to the appellant his costs in the Court of Appeal and in this House, the amount of such last-mentioned costs to be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties. [2005] UKHL 10
3.Autologic Holdings plc and others (Respondents) v. Her Majesty’s Commissioners of Inland Revenue (Appellants)—
4.BNP Paribas UK Holdings Limited and others (Respondents) v. Her Majesty’s Commissioners of Inland Revenue (Appellants)—
5.The Future Network plc and others (Respondents) v. Her Majesty’s Commissioners of Inland Revenue (Appellants)—
6.Perkins Engines Company Limited and others (Respondents) v. Her Majesty’s Commissioners of Inland Revenue (Appellants)—
7.HJ Heinz Company Inc and others (Respondents) v. Her Majesty’s Commissioners of Inland Revenue (Appellants)—
8.British Telecommunications plc and others (Respondents) v. Her Majesty’s Commissioners of Inland Revenue (Appellants)—

The petition of the appellants praying that the appeals be conjoined; that they be allowed to lodge one statement, one case and one appendix in respect of the six appeals; and that the respondents have leave to lodge one case and be jointly represented (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

9.Appeal Committee—The 25th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made—

Unilin Beheer BV (Respondents) v. Berry Floor NV and others (Petitioners)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Respondent) v. Rutherford and another (FC) (Petitioners) and others—That leave to appeal be given; and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 24th February next.

Blackburn Chemicals Limited (Petitioners) v. Bim Kemi AB (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Mensah (Petitioner) v. Jones (Respondent)—That the petition be dismissed as inadmissible.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.

The House was resumed.

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Papers

10.Command Paper—The following paper was presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:

Draft Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill.

(6460)

11.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 (Amendment) Order 2005, laid under the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
2.Draft Offshore Petroleum Activities (Oil Pollution Prevention and Control) Regulations 2005, laid under the Pollution Prevention and Control Act 1999, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
3. (i)Draft Open-Ended Investment Companies (Amendment) Regulations 2005, together with an Explanatory Memorandum—
(ii)Draft Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Carrying on Regulated Activities by Way of Business) (Amendment) Order 2005, together with an Explanatory Memorandum—
 laid under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000.
12.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Town and Country Planning (Timetable for Decisions) (England) Order 2005, laid under the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004;
 (205)
2.Town and Country Planning (Temporary Stop Notice) (England) Regulations 2005, laid under the Town and Country Planning Act 1990;
 (206)
3.(i) Social Security Revaluation of Earnings Factors Order 2005—
 (216)
(ii)Social Security Pensions (Low Earnings Threshold) Order 2005—(217)
 laid under the Social Security Administration Act 1992;
4.Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (County of Hampshire) (Borough of Havant) Order 2005, laid under the Road Traffic Act 1991;
 (233)
5.Ivory Coast (United Nations Sanctions) Order 2005, laid under the United Nations Act 1946;
 (253)
6.Non-Contentious Probate Fees (Indian Ocean Tsunami) Order 2005, laid under the Courts Act 2003;
 (266)
7.Water and Sewerage Undertakers (Inset Appointments) Regulations 2005, laid under the Water Industry Act 1991;
 (268)
8.Representation of the People (Variation of Limits of Candidates’ Election Expenses) Order 2005, laid under the Representation of the People Act 1983;
9.(i) Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Financial Promotion and Promotion of Collective Investment Schemes) (Miscellaneous Amendments) Order 2005—
 (270)
(ii)Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Disclosure of Information by Prescribed Persons) (Amendment) Order 2005—(272)
(iii)Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Service of Notices) (Amendment) Order 2005—(274)
 laid under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000.
13.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Fourth Report of the Independent Monitoring Commission for Northern Ireland, laid under the Northern Ireland (Monitoring Commission etc.) Act 2003;
2.Ivory Coast (Restrictive Measures) (Overseas Territories) Order 2005, laid under the Saint Helena Act 1833.
 (242)

Select Committee Report

14.Procedure of the House—The First Report from the Select Committee was made and ordered to be printed (see Appendix 2). (HL Paper 48)

Public Business

15.Companies Act 1985 (Operating and Financial Review and Directors’ Report etc.) Regulations 2005—It was moved by the Lord Grocott, on behalf of the Lord President (Baroness Amos), that the draft Regulations be referred to a Grand Committee; the motion was agreed to.

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16.Government Resources and Accounts Act 2000 (Audit of Public Bodies) Order 2005—It was moved by the Lord Grocott, on behalf of the Lord President (Baroness Amos), that the draft Order be referred to a Grand Committee; the motion was agreed to.
17.Education Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Baroness Andrews, on behalf of the Lord Filkin, that the amendments for the Report stage be marshalled and considered in the following order:
Clause 1
Schedule 1
Clauses 2 to 18
Schedule 2
Clauses 19 to 26
Schedule 3
Clause 27
Schedule 4
Clauses 28 to 45
Schedule 5
Clauses 46 to 49
Schedule 6
Clauses 50 to 52
Schedule 7
Clause 53
Schedule 8
Clauses 54 to 60
Schedule 9
Clauses 61 to 65
Schedule 10
Clause 66
Schedule 11
Clauses 67 to 69
Schedule 12
Clauses 70 to 74
Schedule 13
Clauses 75 to 95
Schedule 14
Clause 96
Schedule 15
Clauses 97 and 98
Schedule 16
Clauses 99 to 103
Schedule 17
Clauses 104 to 113
Schedule 18
Clauses 114 to 119
Schedule 19
Clauses 120 to 124;

the motion was agreed to.

18.Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Bill [HL]—The report was received; amendments were moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; an amendment was agreed to (see division list); it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 29)
19.Railways Bill—It was moved by the Lord Davies of Oldham that the bill be now read a second time; after debate, the motion was agreed to and the bill was committed to a Grand Committee.

The House was adjourned at five minutes past four o’clock
to Monday 21st February next, half-past two o’clock, except for judicial business.


DIVISION

PUBLIC SERVICES OMBUDSMAN (WALES) BILL [HL]

It was moved by the Lord Roberts of Conwy, after Clause 19, to insert the new Clause (Non-action following receipt of a report); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the House divided:

Contents..............91

Not-Contents..............86

CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alliance, L.
Ampthill, L.
Astor, V.
Attlee, E.
Barker, B.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Biffen, L.
Blaker, L.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Bridgeman, V.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Craig of Radley, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dykes, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Ferrers, E.
Flather, B.
Garden, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Geddes, L.
Glasgow, E.
Goodhart, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howard of Rising, L.
Howe, E.
Kingsland, L.
Laidlaw, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L. [Teller]
Luke, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Montrose, D.

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Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Neuberger, B.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rogan, L.
Roper, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Sandberg, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Taverne, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Swynnerton, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Trumpington, B.
Ullswater, V.
Walmsley, B.
Windlesham, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Andrews, B.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Carter of Coles, L.
Christopher, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Condon, L.
Craigavon, V.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L. (Lord Chancellor)
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Gale, B.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greengross, B.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haworth, L.
Henig, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hylton, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jordan, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Marsh, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Puttnam, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Rooker, L.
Rosser, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Simon, V.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tenby, V.
Tomlinson, L.
Triesman, L.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.


APPENDIX 1

PROCEEDINGS OF THE GRAND COMMITTEE (IN THE MOSES ROOM)

The Committee met at two o’clock.

Charities Bill [HL]—The bill was further considered in the Grand Committee; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; the Committee was adjourned after amendment 64.

The Committee was adjourned at twenty-nine minutes before six o’clock.

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APPENDIX 2

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