House of Lords Journal 238 (Session 2004-05)


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Tuesday 22nd February 2005

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Falconer of Thoroton, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alliance, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Ballyedmond, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhatia, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Biffen, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blood, B.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burlison, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Cameron of Dillington, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter, L.
Chan, L.
Chapman, B.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Courtown, E.
Coventry, Bp.
Cox, B.
Craigavon, V.
Crawley, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Drayson, L.
D’Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Dykes, L.
Eames, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fitt, L.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Gavron, L.
Geddes, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Giddens, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Glasgow, E.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Grocott, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Hanningfield, L.

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Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Henig, B.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton, L.
Imbert, L.
Inge, L.
Inglewood, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jones, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kalms, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kilclooney, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leitch, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Lindsay, E.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
McCluskey, L.
McDonagh, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
Macfarlane of Bearsden, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mancroft, L.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mitchell, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montrose, D.
Moran, L.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murphy, B.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicol, B.
Noakes, B.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Onslow, E.
Ouseley, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plumb, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prashar, B.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Richard, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roll of Ipsden, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Snape, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Steinberg, L.
Stern, B.
Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tenby, V.

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Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Triesman, L.
Trumpington, B.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Uddin, B.
Vallance of Tummel, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Wilson of Dinton, L.
Winchester, Bp.
Windlesham, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Worcester, Bp.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young of Hornsey, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Coventry.

Judicial Business

1.Melville (Respondent) v. Home Office (Petitioners)—The petition of the Home Office praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 17th February).
2.Bhamjee (Petitioner) v. Forsdick and others (Respondents) and one other action—The petition of Ismail Abdulhai Bhamjee praying for leave to appeal notwithstanding that the time limited by Standing Order II has expired was presented without payment of the fee, such fee having been waived by the Appeal Committee pursuant to Standing Order XIII; the said petition was referred to an Appeal Committee.

Papers

3.Instrument withdrawn—The following instrument, laid before the House on 10th January 2005, was withdrawn:

Draft Industrial Training Levy (Engineering Construction Board) Order 2005.

4.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Pay Review Bodies—Fourteenth Report of the School Teachers’ Review Body;
 (6430)
2.Pay Review Bodies—Twenty-Seventh Report of the Review Body on Senior Salaries;
 (6451)
3.Pay Review Bodies—Thirty-Fourth Report of the Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body;
 (6455)
4.Pay Review Bodies—Thirty-Fourth Report of the Review Body on Doctors’ and Dentists’ Remuneration;
 (6463)
5.Pay Review Bodies—Fourth Report of the Prison Service Pay Review Body (England and Wales);
 (6478)
6.Honours System—Reform of the Honours System: Government Response to the reports of the House of Commons Public Administration Select Committee and Sir Hayden Phillips;
 (6479)
7.Police—Foreign and Commonwealth Office Departmental Minute concerning the gifting of body armour to Iranian Anti-Narcotics Police.
 (—)
5.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1. (i)Draft Water Supply (Fluoridation Indemnities) (England) Regulations 2005, together with an Explanatory Memorandum—
(ii)Draft Water Fluoridation (Consultation) (England) Regulations 2005, together with an Explanatory Memorandum—
 laid under the Water Industry Act 1991;
2.Draft Public Processions (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Order 2005, laid under the Northern Ireland Act 2000, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
3.Draft Employment Zones (Allocation to Contractors) Pilot Regulations 2005, laid under the Jobseekers Act 1995, together with an Explanatory Memorandum.

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6.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Licensing Act 2003 (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2005, laid under the Licensing Act 2003;
 (357)
2.Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules, laid under the Immigration Act 1971.
 (—)
7.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Report for 2004 Reviewing the Operation of the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001, laid under that Act;
2.Accounts for 2003–04 of the Northern Ireland Policing Board (Board Grant) together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000;
3. (i)Treasury Minute directing the application of certain amounts as Appropriations in Aid of the Estimates for 2003–04—
(ii)Treasury Minute directing the application of certain amounts as Appropriations in Aid of the Estimates for 2004–05—
 laid under the Government Resources and Accounts Act 2000.

Select Committee Reports

8.Merits of Statutory Instruments—The 10th Report from the Select Committee was made and ordered to be printed. (HL Paper 50)
9.European Union—The following Reports from the Select Committee were made and ordered to be printed, together with the Minutes of Evidence:

Developments in the European Union: Evidence from the Ambassador of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg and the European Parliament’s Constitutional Affairs Committee; (3rd Report-HL Paper 51)

Liberalising Rail Freight Movement in the EU; (4th Report-HL Paper 52)

After Madrid: the EU’s response to terrorism. (5th Report-HL Paper 53)

10.Statutory Instruments—The 9th Report from the Joint Committee was made on certain statutory instruments, including the following affirmative instruments:

Draft Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 (Continuance in force of sections 21 to 23) Order 2005;

Draft Child Trust Funds (Appeals) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2005;

Draft Child Trust Funds (Appeals) Regulations 2005;

Draft Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 (Amendment) Order 2005;

Draft New Opportunities Fund (Specification of Initiative) Order 2005;

Draft Northern Ireland Act 2000 (Modification) Order 2005;

Draft Occupational Pension Schemes (Levies) Regulations 2005;

Draft Occupational Pension Schemes (Modification of Pension Protection Provisions) Regulations 2005;

Draft Public Audit (Wales) Act 2004 (Relaxation of Restriction on Disclosure) Order 2005;

Draft Renewables Obligation Order 2005;

Draft Social Security Commissioners (Procedure) (Child Trust Funds) Regulations 2005;

Draft Town and Country Planning (Fees for Applications and Deemed Applications) (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2005;

it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 54)

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Public Business

11.Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Bill—A bill to amend section 6 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998; to make provision for the gating of certain minor highways; to make provision in relation to vehicles parked on roads that are exposed for sale or being repaired; to make provision in relation to abandoned vehicles and the removal and disposal of vehicles; to make provision relating to litter and refuse, graffiti, fly-posting and the display of advertisements; to make provision relating to the transportation, collection, disposal and management of waste; to make provision relating to the control of dogs and to amend the law relating to stray dogs; to make provision in relation to noise; to provide for the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment and for the making of grants relating to the quality of the built environment; to amend the law relating to abandoned shopping and luggage trolleys; to amend the law relating to statutory nuisances; to amend section 78L of the Environmental Protection Act 1990; to amend the law relating to offences under Schedule 1 to the Pollution Prevention and Control Act 1999; and for connected purposes was brought from the Commons, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 31)
12.Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Bill—It was ordered that the Explanatory Notes relating to the bill be printed. (HL Bill 31-EN)
13.Child Trust Funds (Amendment) Regulations 2005—It was moved by the Lord McIntosh of Haringey that the draft Regulations laid before the House on 21st December 2004 be approved; the motion was agreed to.
14.Government Resources and Accounts Act 2000 (Audit of Public Bodies) Order 2005—It was moved by the Lord McIntosh of Haringey that the draft Order laid before the House on 31st January be approved; the motion was agreed to.
15.Mental Capacity Bill—It was moved by the Baroness Ashton of Upholland that the amendments for the Report stage be marshalled and considered in the following order:
Clauses 1 to 9
Schedule 1
Clauses 10 to 18
Schedule 2
Clauses 19 to 59
Schedule 3
Clauses 60 to 62
Schedules 4 and 5
Clause 63
Schedules 6 and 7
Clauses 64 and 65;

the motion was agreed to.

16.Electoral Registration (Northern Ireland) Bill [HL]—The House resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; an amendment was moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); the House was resumed and the bill was reported without amendment.
17.Gambling Bill—It was moved by the Lord McIntosh of Haringey that the bill be now read a second time; after debate, the motion was agreed to and the bill was committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
18.Electoral Registration (Northern Ireland) Bill [HL]—The report was received; then, Standing Order 47 having been dispensed with, the bill was read a third time and passed and sent to the Commons.

The House was adjourned at three minutes before ten o’clock
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISION

ELECTORAL REGISTRATION (NORTHERN IRELAND) BILL [HL]

It was moved by the Lord Shutt of Greetland, after Clause 2, to insert the new Clause (Rolling registration); which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents..............61

Not-Contents..............140

CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Avebury, L.
Ballyedmond, L.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Clement-Jones, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dykes, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Erroll, E.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fitt, L.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fowler, L.
Garden, L.
Glasgow, E.
Glentoran, L. [Teller]
Goodhart, L.
Greaves, L.

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Harris of Richmond, B.
Hooson, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hylton, L.
Jopling, L.
Kilclooney, L.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lucas, L.
Lyell, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Methuen, L.
Michie of Gallanach, B.
Monson, L.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Redesdale, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Roper, L.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Sandberg, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shutt of Greetland, L. [Teller]
Smith of Clifton, L.
Steinberg, L.
Stewartby, L.
Taverne, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Vallance of Tummel, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Amos, B. (Lord President)
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Drayson, L.
Dubs, L.
Eatwell, L.
Elder, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Giddens, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grantchester, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayman, B.
Henig, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Judd, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leitch, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
McDonagh, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Mitchell, L.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Paul, L.
Pendry, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Rooker, L.
Rosser, L.
Rowlands, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sewel, L.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Snape, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Tenby, V.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Triesman, L.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Walpole, L.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Hornsey, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

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APPENDIX

PROCEEDINGS OF THE GRAND COMMITTEE (IN THE MOSES ROOM)

The Committee met at half-past three o’clock.

Commissioners for Revenue and Customs Bill—The bill was considered in the Grand Committee; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the Committee was adjourned after clause 10 stood part.

The Committee was adjourned at twenty-nine minutes past seven o’clock.